I run a 3.5E D&D campaign, but I really don't like the 3.5E Turn Undead rules. So what I am doing is using the Channel Energy rules from Pathfinder RPG.
The slight problem I run into is dealing with things like the +2 synergy bonus having 5 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) gives to Turn Undead checks or creatures with Turn Resistance.
I was thinking of perhaps having a +2 bonus equate to a +1 bonus to the Will save for half damage. So the +2 synergy bonus from Knowledge (Religion) would increase the save DC by 1. A creature with +4 Turn Resistance would get a +2 bonus to their Will save vs Channel Energy.
Has anyone else tried using the Channel Energy rules with 3.5E? How did you mesh it in with the 3.5E rules?
Olaf the Stout
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Both of those solutions, the +2 synergy bonus becoming a +1 save DC bonus and the Turn Resistance turning into a save bonus (which basically duplicates PF's 'channel resistance' anyway), seem like fine solutions.
There are a ton of ways to get bonuses to Turn/Rebuke checks, or extra effective levels for Turn/Rebuke purposes such as special holy symbols from Eberron, or Phylacteries of Turning, or stuff from the Ravenloft adventure, so you might want to consult one of the Turning/Rebuke guides online and decide which of those things might come up in your games, depending on what core and non-core books your group is using.
It's been ages, so I'm having no luck finding the guides I used to use, but here's one such guide.
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A few supliments in 3.5 already have them,so it is nothing new with PathFinder really, except that Pathfinder turned it into healing or damage.
I actually like Turning more, as I do not often play a healer Cleric. That being said, what you wrote is fine, though in PF, the +4 Turn Resist = +4 Will save vs Channel Energy to harm.
A few supliments in 3.5 already have them,so it is nothing new with PathFinder really, except that Pathfinder turned it into healing or damage.
I actually like Turning more, as I do not often play a healer Cleric. That being said, what you wrote is fine, though in PF, the +4 Turn Resist = +4 Will save vs Channel Energy to harm.
The things I don't like about the turning rules are:
1. It requires you to roll on 2 separate tables that are used for nothing else besides turn undead checks.
2. Turning either doesn't have any effect or is an auto-win button.
3. Turning against incorporeal creatures is useless, even when you do succeed. It only buys you some time unless you destroy them (very low chance) or have some way of following them through the walls to attack them when they flee
Do skill synergy bonuses still exist in Pathfinder rules? I couldn't see them in the PF SRD.
I was wary about the +4 Turn Resistance = +4 to the Will save vs Channel Energy being too good for the bad guys. Does that help to offset the fact that Channel Energy is a much better ability than Turn Undead though?
Olaf the Stout
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No, they don't. While I can see your point as to the 2 seperate rolls, I don't see why this is an issue? There are times when Turning is either useless or Autowin, there are also times when Channel Energy is not a Cleric class feature, but a party feature that happens to have a Cleric or absolutely useless, to. It pretty much evens out, depending on your playstyle, more or less.
In my opinion, though, Undead used to be where a Cleric really had time to shine, especially if they just wiped out or caused an enemy to flee on a good roll out of nowhere. It didn't happen often, but I've only ever seen Channel Energy do that once so far, and even it was kind of a let down, in my opinion. So it's all a matter of tastes. Turning also had great alternate options, and I think almost every single on in PF is if not terrible, bad. Again, matter of tastes, though.
In the 1 session played of our campaign so far Channel Energy saved a PC's life. The Cleric was 25 feet away from the Ranger after moving and healed him from negative HP's to positives.
If he didn't the PC would have copped 2 attacks while unconscious from a pair of guard dogs, which probably would have killed him. As it was the Ranger was still taken into the negatives again by one successful bite next turn, but the healing saved him from death (and possibly stopped the second attack from hitting).
In my last campaign I had a Cleric for about half the campaign. In that time he managed to destroy 6 Zombies and make a few other low level undead flee. Other than that his turning did not work or was not used as there were better options to take with his action.
Olaf the Stout
The 3.5e "campaign-adventure" Expedition to Castle Ravenloft has supplemental material in the back of the book and actually has a cleric alternate class called the Lightbringer cleric that does damage instead of Turning, with an alternate class ability called Destroy Undead, but it does 1d6 per cleric level instead of the 1d6 per 2 cleric levels Pathfinder has Channel Energy do.
The 3.5e Destroy Undead (Su) supernatural ability is a standard action with a 30-ft radius that hits all undead in the area of effect. The affected undead get a Will save (DC 10+cleric level+Cha modifier) for half damage. The Turn Resistance of the undead acts like damage reduction against turning, basically, so a creature with +4 Turn Resistance takes 4 less damage every time a cleric uses Destroy Undead against it.
The ability also states that it doesn't have a 50% miss chance against incorporeal creatures, it always hits incorporeal undead in the area of effect.
The description goes on to say that Destroy Undead counts as Turn Undead for the purpose of meeting prerequisites for feats, prestige classes, etc, and can be used the same number of times per day that a cleric would otherwise be able to Turn Undead. Feats and abilities that would consume Turn Undead uses instead consume Destroy Undead uses, and any ability that would grant a bonus to turning checks instead grants an equal bonus to Destroy Undead's save DC.
The actual ability description appears on page 206-207 of Expedition to Castle Ravenloft published by Wizards of the Coast. Note that the adventure mentioned is actually an adventure that assumes the default Greyhawk campaign setting of 3.x D&D, and IS NOT specific to the Ravenloft Campaign Setting.
So anyway, that's Wizards of the Coast's version of a turning that damages undead. Since it's actually 3.5e material, you may want to go with it instead of Pathfinder's version for use in your 3.5e game, but then again it's a bit more powerful than the Pathfinder Channel Energy (twice as many damage dice, basically, and no bonus to saves for the undead) so you may want to go with the Pathfinder Channel Energy instead. Of course 3.5e Destroy Undead has no healing properties, so that's a benefit of the Pathfinder Channel Energy ability too.
Thanks for the heads up Wolf. I have EtCR, so I might give it a look.
Having said that, based on what you're saying about it, I think I prefer the lower damage, but ability to heal of the Channel Energy ability over the Destroy Undead ability.
Olaf the Stout