So huge newbie to pnp in general and have probably made some hilariously bad mistakes in initial character creation, but hopefully it is salvageable,
So currently
Half-Elf Bard (street perfomer) 2
Dex 16
Con 10
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 18
Dangerously Curious
Performance Artist (Oratory)
Ancestral Arms (Net)
Level 1: Grease, Silent Image, Timely Inspiration
Diplomacy 1 (13)
Disguise 1 (9)
Know History 1 (5)
Know Local 1 (5)
Perception 2 (8)
Perform Comedy 2 (9)
Perform Oratory 2 (13)
Sense Motive 1 (13)
Sleight of Hand 2 (9)
Use Magic Device 2 (10)
I'm wanting to go for a kind of controller bard, debuffing/buffing (lol at no inspire courage...) The character flavour is that of a magician, misdirection, tricks, smooth talking etc. But that is achieved well enough with this current kit and this build seems to be in some dire need of some optimisation.
Have looked at Treantmonk's Bard guide and have plotted out what I think might be good for the next few levels.
Feat: Weapon Finesse (can't wait for this, then maybe I can hit with my whip...)
Skill points: Both performs, SoH, Linguistics +3, Perc, UMD
Languages: Draconic, Osirian, Tien (started with Kelish as the int bonus language. I'm not sure what languages come up often but have been going for human languages which appear to be used often (character's father is a merchant and suits the street performer idea) If there's are any suggestions as far as languages go or if linguistics is actually a worthless skill to level I'm all ears. Threw in draconic because it's shown up in just about every session I've played so far, but idk really)
Skills: both performs, SoH, Linguistics, perception, UMD, Know Nobility, Know Religion (dunno whether it's a good or bad idea but picking up knowledges where I can to compensate for the lack of bardic knowledge... )
Get an ability point at this level but I have no idea what I should put it in to help myself out. Pretty sure my stats aren't particularly ideal.
Current items and things are: crossbow, wand of mm, wand of clw, net x3 (if someone can carry the extras...), scorpion whip. Probably predictably haven't had much luck with the whip and nets.
Any advice was be HUGELY appreciated, whether I should change direction of the build whatever and any particular advice about feat progression and the like. Don't want to be a liability in tough situations.
Thanks for giving it a look ouo
There's only one point in diplonacy and sense motive which I took first level before thinking too much about versatile performance. Smart I know aha, I'm investing in perform comedy for my next versatile performance (intimidate and bluff). And yeah, I'll invest into Acrobatics for sure now. Any reccommended knowledges to focus on?
After going for Dazzling display is going after tripping feats likely to be viuable or would you suggest something else?
What abilities should I be investing into when I get points? A point or so in Str?
You'd be saving on having to pick up Dervish Dance if you go the agile enhancement route but what other feat would you be saving on? (and how would you acquire such a weapon, gp?)
And the tripping route falls off as you gain levels but that's when you actually manage to acquire the feats to possibly make it effective?
I had been looking at going the whip or net route and going with dazzling display. Would that be ok or suboptimal? And where would you progress from there?
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If you're not aiming at Dervish Dance, you don't need to pick up Weapon Proficiency (Scimitar) as a prerequisite. Could be avoided if you're willing to dip a level in fighter or paladin, though that leads to slightly different problems.
In terms of getting an agile weapon, someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's 8,000 GP to get a +1 Agile weapon (because it needs to be +1 before you add the agile enhancement). Whether that's worth two feats, or a feat and a dip, really depends what you want to do with your character.
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The first thing I notice is you are trying to make a controller type bard. With out looking at the bard spell list, and reading fascinate first. Both wold show you a very weak link in your idea for the bard. They can do the job but there not very good at it.
Your character is well optimized for the role. You just need a few more levels before you start getting what you need to make it work better. Taking weapon finesse will not help you enough to hit very often. As you are focusing on Cha and not Dex. Along with you lacking inspire courage. Your to hit bonus will never be very good. So it will end up being a wasted feet. From where your at taking spell focus enchantment and greater spell focus enchantment will help allot. Right now your trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Never works very well with out a large hammer, and allot of force.
Over all if your going to make a combat bard. You need to build with a different mind set. Then what you have build this bard for. Combat bards will have a high str or dex depending on your concept. They will have a OK cha normal 12 to 14. They will not give up inspire courage, or if they do it's for somthing that gives them a larger bonus.
I only commented on the combat bard stuff becaus it was brought up, that's not really my intention and I had figured it would be awkward to pull off with those stats anyway.
Weapon finesse so you can pick up dazzling display is not worthwhile at all? I think it improves this bard's chances to hit with a net as well. which could be useful. From what I've read you should have something you can do when you can't/have run out of spells?
Idk what you're talking about as far as fascinate, I realise it's pretty much an exclusively out of combat ability and the spells I've been picking have been with control/buffing/debuffing/utility in mind. I probably would have done better optimisation wise not picking street peformer but it's too late now and disappearing act has proved fairly useful so far.
Spell focus enchantment seems rather specific and only improves a handful of the possible spells a bard might take? Idk, maybe if you could explain your reasoning for that? I can see the payoff for the spells involved though.
I think your build is fine as it is for a controller, and definitely not "unsaviorable" :-)
If you need something "martial" to do when you are not casting or using performance, you could go for the light crossbow, maybe take rapid reload as a feat. Your STR score won't matter there, your strength is high and will help you hit with little investment.
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Buy some muleback cords, because you are likely always over-encumbered.
With that charisma, you have focused on casting first and martial pursuits second, so take advantage of that with save or suck spells and buffs when you can get them.
The whip thing, even with Weapon Finesse, should be a last resort. Throwing a net is better, throwing a tanglefoot bag is better (although get a handy haversack so that you don't have to worry about how much they weigh).
Muleback cords though, grab those and possibly also a buckler.
EDIT: Weapon Finesse doesn't help with your net at all, so if you want to focus on nets and thrown weapons, pick up Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot instead. The bonus is that it will make your crossbow an easier shot too.
Don't expect to be pulling big numbers with any of this. Your job is to help other people pull the big numbers, or take enemies out of the equation.
Make good use of your disappearing act as well. The big barbarian with the two-handed sword? He'll hit a lot more often if he's treated as invisible by his enemy.
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Bard enchantment spell list.
1st : Charm Person, Compel Hostility, Confusion, Lesser, Fumbletongue, Hideous Laughter, Hypnotism, Memory Lapse, Sleep, Unprepared Combatant,
2nd : Calm Emotions, Compassionate Ally, Daze Monster, Enthrall, Hold Person, Oppressive Boredom, Suggestion, Unadulterated Loathing
3rd : Aura of the Unremarkable, Charm Monster, Confusion, Crushing Despair, Curse of Disgust, Deep Slumber, Geas-Quest, Good Hope, Lover's Vengeance, Overwhelming Grief, Smug Narcissism, Terrible Remorse,
And thats just the first 3 spell levels. For bards enchantment has most of there SOS Spells. Along with a good portion of there other spells. That is why spell focus and greater spell focus enchantment are very good for a casting bard. Your go to spell at 1st should be Hideous Laughter, or Hypnotism. 2nd Hold Person, Oppressive Boredom, or Suggestion. 3rd Charm Monster, Confusin, or Overwhelming Grief.
I read a post that somewhat applies to this situation and makes a lot of sense.
Go with the crossbow as the martial thing to do when I don't have any usefull spells I can be casting and focus on feats relating to that? Rapid reload, point blank shot etc. I keep reading just about everywhere that going full caster on a bard is suboptimal as you're making yourself a gimped sorcerer in that case?
The tanglefoot bag, you only have to sucessfully make a ranged touch attack and it ends up entangled and must make a save to be able to move at all(dc 15 later would be easy enough but they still have to take an action to remove the goo I guess). That's if I'm understanding it correctly. Sounds pretty good, anything else like that worthwhile knowing about haha?
Also talking to a friend, muleback cords might not be easily acquireable in pfs play?
I read a post that somewhat applies to this situation and makes a lot of sense.
Go with the crossbow as the martial thing to do when I don't have any usefull spells I can be casting and focus on feats relating to that? Rapid reload, point blank shot etc. I keep reading just about everywhere that going full caster on a bard is suboptimal as you're making yourself a gimped sorcerer in that case?
The tanglefoot bag, you only have to sucessfully make a ranged touch attack and it ends up entangled and must make a save to be able to move at all(dc 15 later would be easy enough but they still have to take an action to remove the goo I guess). That's if I'm understanding it correctly. Sounds pretty good, anything else like that worthwhile knowing about haha?
Also talking to a friend, muleback cords might not be easily acquireable in pfs play?
About the light crossbow: I suggested that above since it works with your stats and requires very little investments in terms of feats. You can, however, add feats to improve its usefulness if you find it helpful:
- without anything: 1 attack/round, decent minimal damage, improve it with magic (magical weapon, flaming/frost/... enhancements or spells etc.)- rapid shot: profit from bab > 5, haste etc.
- arcane strike: for a swift action your damage will increase by up to +3 until lvl 12
- point-blank shot: +1 attack and damage in 30ft
- precise shot: if you really frequently use the light crossbow and cannot pick (parts of) targets 10 or more feet away from your buddies, this is good
In your situation it is better than a bow IMO, especially since you already have proficiency with it.
Tanglefoot bag: if the DC is 15, it's not bad.
Muleback cords: Are cool items, I do not know about their availability in PFS. Alternatively, pick up a belt of strength or the ant haul or floating disc spells (with wands).