This is missed by a lot of white people. It doesn't even matter if it's true or not. Young black males are often taught, from 12 or so on, to avoid contact with police. Because far too often, it is believed, young black men are considered so threatening that they will be arrested or even shot on little pretext.
IF its a misconception (how true it is likely varies a lot by area) this case isn't doing much to help.
Nobody involved in this case is white btw. I would just like to dispel that misconception. Look at both parties.Would you really consider either one of them "white"? I sure wouldn't.
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Nobody involved in this case is white btw. I would just like to dispel that misconception. Look at both parties.Would you really consider either one of them "white"? I sure wouldn't.
Has anyone in this thread claimed that either of them is?
Martin might have had reason to be fearful or angry about the police coming to investigate since medical reports show he had pot in his system. So if he had been confronted and told that the police were on their way, he might have lashed out at the person. Of course none of us know what really happened, at least not yet if ever.
Pot in his system? When was this released?
The marijuana information was released about a week ago.
Martin might have had reason to be fearful or angry about the police coming to investigate since medical reports show he had pot in his system. So if he had been confronted and told that the police were on their way, he might have lashed out at the person. Of course none of us know what really happened, at least not yet if ever.
Speaking from experience, that's really not how you act when you have "pot in your system."
Martin might have had reason to be fearful or angry about the police coming to investigate since medical reports show he had pot in his system. So if he had been confronted and told that the police were on their way, he might have lashed out at the person. Of course none of us know what really happened, at least not yet if ever.Speaking from experience, that's really not how you act when you have "pot in your system."
Paranoid?
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As the board's preeminent resident pothead:
"Prosecuting attorneys argue that Zimmerman was the aggressor. A medical expert said the trace amounts of THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, found in Martin’s blood were not at a level that would have caused intoxication or that would cause aggression. Precise levels of THC found in the urine have not been released."
Meanwhile, George Zimmerman has been reported to have been on a prescription of Temazepam, which has side effects including hallucinations and to cause aggressiveness.
M'lord Dice tells me the one holding the gun is always innocent in a court of law.
Paranoid?Martin might have had reason to be fearful or angry about the police coming to investigate since medical reports show he had pot in his system. So if he had been confronted and told that the police were on their way, he might have lashed out at the person. Of course none of us know what really happened, at least not yet if ever.Speaking from experience, that's really not how you act when you have "pot in your system."
Paranoia about what? That some crazy dude with a gun was stalking him?
Its not paranoia when you're right.
The amount of THC in his system was so low it could have been from about a week ago. You'd probably get more from a contact high if you went to a grateful dead concert.
THC metabolites are generally detectable in the blood for 2-3 days, as anyone who's ever been freaked out by a prospective pre-employment test can easily find on the internet.
THC metabolites are generally detectable in the blood for 2-3 days, as anyone who's ever been freaked out by a prospective pre-employment test can easily find on the internet.
Poppy bagels, dude, just poppy bagels...
Yeah, that's what I told 'em.
Paranoia about what? That some crazy dude with a gun was stalking him?
So he knew the guy had a gun prior to the fight starting? And how do you know this, and if true, why didn't the kid just try to outrun him? I mean a 17 year old football player can't outrun a late 20's guy? Yeah, outrunning a bullet doesn't always work, but it is a lot more effective then trying to fight the guy.
Its not paranoia when you're right.
But it is when it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
The amount of THC in his system was so low it could have been from about a week ago. You'd probably get more from a contact high if you went to a grateful dead concert.
So a kid that was just suspended for having possible drug possession in school is suppose to be as clear thinking as a 70 year old hippy? He couldn't possibly think he might get the shaft by the system, just like when he got suspended?
Paranoia about what? That some crazy dude with a gun was stalking him?So he knew the guy had a gun prior to the fight starting?
No.
Its not paranoia when you're right.But it is when it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It wasn't. He looked perfectly fine in the convenient store, so unless he ran into mighty joint! in the 3 minutes between there and home he wasn't that high.
So a kid that was just suspended for having possible drug possession in school is suppose to be as clear thinking as a 70 year old hippy? He couldn't possibly think he might get the shaft by the system, just like when he got suspended?
That would be a good reason not to call the cops to deal with the suspicious guy following you.
Temazepam vs pot. Hm.
was there enough pot in his system to warrant that he had recently smoked a joint or simply was around someone who smoked up? Cuz I don't smoke weed (although I've certainly gotten enough contact highs). In terms of Temazepam...that is more my pervue. I will do some research and come back.
Is there any evidence he was told the police were on their way? I haven't heard that. And by evidence I mean, does Zimmerman claim that?
If we're going to make up the conversation, maybe Zimmerman reached for his gun and said "I'm going to kill you, n%#+#!".
Obviously, Martin was justified.
No, I don't have any evidence to show he did say that. That was kind of my point, we don't have enough evidence to know exactly what happened. Some folks on here are making statements as if they know exactly what happened, when, and how. My point was that something else might have happened, and as an example I gave another possibility, where Martin might have had motivation to be the aggressor.
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Yeah, so far I see this:
1. Zimmerman (armed) is following Martin (unarmed)
2. Black box
3. Martin is dead of GSW
For all the "evidence" we've seen, Martin and Zimmerman could have been abducted by aliens and battled free together, at the cost of Martin being shot in the fracas.
Is there any evidence he was told the police were on their way? I haven't heard that.
You mean the 911 recording that was released very soon after the story originally broke?
Ok here it is, at least the important part. GZ calls 911, tells about the situation, is told that dispatch is on their way and that they don't need GZ to follow the suspect (Trayvon). Or did you mean that TM knew the police were coming?
For all the "evidence" we've seen, Martin and Zimmerman could have been abducted by aliens and battled free together, at the cost of Martin being shot in the fracas.
Is there any evidence he was told the police were on their way? I haven't heard that.You mean the 911 recording that was released very soon after the story originally broke?
Ok here it is, at least the important part. GZ calls 911, tells about the situation, is told that dispatch is on their way and that they don't need GZ to follow the suspect (Trayvon). Or did you mean that TM knew the police were coming?
Yeah, I am not entirely sure we have heard what Zimmerman told the police about the confrontation after it happened except in very general terms.
So from what I can tell about the actual confrontation, and the phone call previously linked, it seems like TM realized he was being followed ("He's looking right at me") and decided he didn't want a confrontation ("He's running") and, some time after the phone call ends, and GZ is STILL following TM, TM has decided that flight didn't work. So he tried fight. That seems pretty reasonable. I mean that's what I'd do. Try to juke someone who was following me and, failing ALL else, pre-emptively strike my would-be assailant.
As opposed to following a teenager, potentially with the munchies, provoking a fight and shooting him point blank in the chest.
Yeah, I am not entire sure we have heard what Zimmerman told the police about the confrontation after it happened except in very general terms.
So then let's not assume facts not in evidence.
Temazepam vs pot. Hm.
was there enough pot in his system to warrant that he had recently smoked a joint or simply was around someone who smoked up?
I don't think we know. It doesn't appear that, so far, the results of the urinalysis have been revealed.
EDIT: Or at least, that was the case six days ago. I don't go checking except whenever this thread gets bumped.
So from what I can tell about the actual confrontation, and the phone call previously linked, it seems like TM realized he was being followed ("He's looking right at me") and decided he didn't want a confrontation ("He's running") and, some time after the phone call ends, and GZ is STILL following TM, TM has decided that flight didn't work. So he tried fight. That seems pretty reasonable. I mean that's what I'd do. Try to juke someone who was following me and, failing ALL else, pre-emptively strike my would-be assailant.
As opposed to following a teenager, potentially with the munchies, provoking a fight and shooting him point blank in the chest.
To be clear, "flight didn't work", might just mean he wasn't able to lose the guy following him, it doesn't necessarily mean the guy caught up to him. I mean, if someone was following me and I wasn't able to lose them, I would still try to get home where I would be safer than trying to confront someone on the street. Now maybe this 17 year old high school football player could't stay ahead of this 28 year old guy and was tackled by him or something.
So then let's not assume facts not in evidence.
Yeah, I am not entire sure we have heard what Zimmerman told the police about the confrontation after it happened except in very general terms.
Dude, I didn't. I suggest another possibility. I am not the one saying that Zimmerman did this and Martin did that, as if I was there and saw the whole thing with my night vision goggles. Look to some of the other posters for that if you want to get on someone's case about assuming facts.
To be clear, "flight didn't work", might just mean he wasn't able to lose the guy following him, it doesn't necessarily mean the guy caught up to him. I mean, if someone was following me and I wasn't able to lose them, I would still try to get home where I would be safer than trying to confront someone on the street. Now maybe this 17 year old high school football player could't stay ahead of this 28 year old guy and was tackled by him or something.I've been followed by people looking to do me harm and home is the LAST PLACE I went. Did it one time, and it made things even worse.
Was your family there at the time?
I would assume if a public place was closer, I would go there, but if my family was home, and I was a teen, and my home was the closest place available, I would definitely go there.
Yep that's me. By day I am a 33 year old scientist but by night I am a street thug (wearing a green lantern hoodie).If somebody aggressively grabbed me at night I would fight back without even thinking.Well, you're obviously a thug, then! And if you're wearing a hoodie, you should be shot on general principle, because obviously no Law-Abiding Decent Folk (TM) would do so!
I would assume if a public place was closer, I would go there, but if my family was home, and I was a teen, and my home was the closest place available, I would definitely go there.
There is no way that, at age 17, I would knowingly lead potentially violent trouble home so that it would spill over on my family.
I would take his version of events with a grain of salt because there's noone to refute it.
No, I don't have any evidence to show he did say that. That was kind of my point, we don't have enough evidence to know exactly what happened. Some folks on here are making statements as if they know exactly what happened, when, and how. My point was that something else might have happened, and as an example I gave another possibility, where Martin might have had motivation to be the aggressor.Is there any evidence he was told the police were on their way? I haven't heard that. And by evidence I mean, does Zimmerman claim that?
If we're going to make up the conversation, maybe Zimmerman reached for his gun and said "I'm going to kill you, n%#+#!".
Obviously, Martin was justified.Except that we do have Zimmerman's report of the confrontation, which doesn't include any reference to the police being on their way. He could be lying about that, but you'd think if he was lying he wouldn't be leaving out things that made him look good.
Boy, was I wrong. I would have done the very thing that Martin did. Cops are S^%%. And I'm white.
Oh man, now you've done it. INB4 some guy who claims to be a cop tells you how hard he works.
Boy, was I wrong. I would have done the very thing that Martin did. Cops are S^%%. And I'm white.Oh man, now you've done it. INB4 some guy who claims to be a cop tells you how hard he works.
I'll say nothing about police officers in general, but it bears repeating that in Sanford they appear to work very hard at covering up the killing and beating of black people by friends and family of the Sanford PD.
I have read, but not been able to confirm, that the officer in charge at the scene was the same one in charge of the Collison case.
I would have gone to a friends. My mom would have made things worse.
I would assume if a public place was closer, I would go there, but if my family was home, and I was a teen, and my home was the closest place available, I would definitely go there.There is no way that, at age 17, I would knowingly lead potentially violent trouble home so that it would spill over on my family.
Please read what I am actually saying. In no way did I besmirch anything you said. I just pointed out that he could say *anything* at this point, and we would be none the wiser.
I would take his version of events with a grain of salt because there's noone to refute it.
Except that we do have Zimmerman's report of the confrontation, which doesn't include any reference to the police being on their way. He could be lying about that, but you'd think if he was lying he wouldn't be leaving out things that made him look good.
Please read what I'm actually saying. Did you miss the part where I said he could be lying? Or that this would be a really silly lie for him to make?
I take his version of events with a grain of salt about the size of a Buick, but I also assume that it puts an upper bound on how favorable it could be for him.
Well, all I can say is I am glad I have not had the experiences you have had. I know if and when I have children I will tell them that if they feel they are in danger to try to get home or get help from an adult if they can't. I certainly would rather have my windows broken by vandals than to have my child shot or beaten to death in some dark alley.
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Boy, was I wrong. I would have done the very thing that Martin did. Cops are S^%%. And I'm white.Oh man, now you've done it. INB4 some guy who claims to be a cop tells you how hard he works.I'll say nothing about police officers in general, but it bears repeating that in Sanford they appear to work very hard at covering up the killing and beating of black people by friends and family of the Sanford PD.
I have read, but not been able to confirm, that the officer in charge at the scene was the same one in charge of the Collison case.
I've seen the same thing.
I've rarely had a good run in with cops but that's for a different thread.
I will not go into my experiences with cops here, but I will say when you gave been robbed it's hard to find one who cares.
Well, all I can say is I am glad I have not had the experiences you have had. I know if and when I have children I will tell them that if they feel they are in danger to try to get home or get help from an adult if they can't.
Much different experiences, evidently. I know if and when I have children, by 17 I'd hope they'd be competent enough to not automatically default to acting like little kids that need to "leave everything to the grown-ups" as if they were 6.
Well, all I can say is I am glad I have not had the experiences you have had. I know if and when I have children I will tell them that if they feel they are in danger to try to get home or get help from an adult if they can't.Much different experiences, evidently. I know if and when I have children, by 17 I'd hope they'd be competent enough to not automatically default to acting like little kids that need to "leave everything to the grown-ups" as if they were 6.
Yeah, different experiences. I would never expect my child, no matter the age to try and take care of violent people themselves. Violence is necessary when there is no other choice, but violence should never be used because someone feels like running and getting help makes them less of a "man".
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People keep bringing up that they doubt Martin (the football player) couldn't outrun Zimmerman. We don't really know the trajectories of the two except from Zimmerman's testimony. What if Zimmerman ran around the building and confronted him head on? What if once Martin got off the road and around the building where Zimmerman couldn't drive he assumed he was safe and stopped running only to be overtaken by the now on foot Zimmerman. If Zimmerman had his hand on his gun when he confronted Martin (even if just to threaten), Martin may have tried to wrestle the gun away knowing that running from Zimmerman may end in being shot in the back. Like it was said before - the whole situation is a black box.