Beast bonded Witch and Twin Soul


Pathfinder Society

Sovereign Court 2/5

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I waded through the posts on this topic and did not find a definitive ruling (although I may have missed it as there was a lot to wade through). Basically, here are the questions:

Twin Soul
At 10th-level, if the witch or her familiar is gravely injured or about to die, the soul of the dying one immediately transfers to the other’s body. The two souls share the surviving body peaceably, can communicate freely, and both retain their ability to think and reason. The host may allow the guest soul to take over the body temporarily or reclaim it as a move action. They can persist in this state indefinitely, or the guest can return to its own body (if available) by touch, transfer into a suitable vessel (such as a clone), or take over another body as if using magic jar (with no receptacle).

The last ability (aside from seeming pretty evil) is the problem. In magic jar, the soul of the target body would be destroyed (no receptacle). Also, magic jar has a duration, would that apply in this case (I don't believe so because of the part mentioned previously in italics)? If it works like this, then how do we track this in PFS? Maybe I missed this in a previous ruling for PFS?

Thank you

Grand Lodge 4/5

This class feature does not contradict any of the normal rules for Magic Jar except the need for a receptacle. That means it has a duration just like Magic Jar and when that duration expires the witch returns to its familiars body.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Which would presumably be at the end of every scenario, since spell effects do not persist from scenario to scenario.

Which means this character would need to redo the effect at the beginning of every scenario.

Silver Crusade 2/5

Now I want to play a witch, just so I can take the Paracountess for a spin...

Sovereign Court 2/5

Thanks Mike.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You see, there is a problem with the concept that the ability to use magic Jar without the use of a receptacle mean instant death for the owner of the body. Check the following monster abilities:

Ghost wrote:
Malevolence (Su): The ghost's jealousy of the living is particularly potent. Once per round, the ghost can merge its body with a creature on the Material Plane. This ability is similar to a magic jar spell (caster level 10th or the ghost's Hit Dice, whichever is higher), except that it does not require a receptacle. To use this ability, the ghost must be adjacent to the target. The target can resist the attack with a successful Will save. A creature that successfully saves is immune to that same ghost's malevolence for 24 hours.
Devil, belier wrote:
Possession (Su) When a belier devil uses its magic jar spell-like ability, it can identify and pinpoint life forces accurately, allowing it to select its victims with ease. It does not require a receptacle to use magic jar. If it uses magic jar on a host while on the Material Plane, its own body becomes ethereal for the duration of the possession and the magic jar effect lasts until the effect is dispelled, the devil ends the effect, it is forced out of its host body, or it or its host body is slain.

You are giving them a instant death attack.

Then check the spell. It nowhere say that if there is no physical receptacle used when the spell is cast the target die, actually the absence of a receptacle (or to be more precise, the destruction of the receptacle) simply end the spell.

Magic Jar wrote:


By casting magic jar, you place your soul in a gem or large crystal (known as the magic jar), leaving your body lifeless. Then you can attempt to take control of a nearby body, forcing its soul into the magic jar.

....

Destroying the receptacle ends the spell,

You are assuming something from a phrase that is totally separated from the initial takeover of the body.

Magic jar wrote:
If the host body is slain, you return to the magic jar, if within range, and the life force of the host departs (it is dead). If the host body is slain beyond the range of the spell, both you and the host die. Any life force with nowhere to go is treated as slain.

This piece has his specific paragraph, separated from the others. Notice how it start: "If the host body is slain". That is the condition needed to activate the other text of this part of the spell. it don't apply in other conditions.

So what happen when the Witch take over a body? RAW is silent.
RAI? We can go with plenty of possessions films, novels and so on. The soul is trapped in the host body, unable to act, maybe conscious, maybe not.

Ruling that the witch power automatically kill the host is a way to crate a world of trouble with all the monsters with the same ability.

Sovereign Court 2/5

Yes, that is the probem I've been having. By using magic jar as the base it looks like the target body's soul is detroyed. Even if the possesion has a time limit as Mike says, it gives the BB Witch an at will death attack. This is something that needs clarification, edit, ruling? This would affect Ghosts, the Shadow Demon, the Belier Devil as all three, IMO, are ment to possess and not destroy the targets soul.

Dark Archive 3/5

Andrew Christian wrote:

Which would presumably be at the end of every scenario, since spell effects do not persist from scenario to scenario.

Which means this character would need to redo the effect at the beginning of every scenario.

Except it isn't a spell effect, it's a supernatural at will ability. Only spells expire at the end of a scenario. Now if you are going to update the guide to include SU abilities ending at the end of scenarios great but currently this ability is not covered by that.


I have a question. Is the twin soul sure ability a touch ability for all it's functions? Or does the transfer soul a LA magic jar have the magic jar range (100 ft +10th per lvl)?


Finnaly a question with substance. So tired of seeing boon questions. And worst table ever... Thank you OP!

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