In a few months I'm playing in a game where one person is playing a Bard (Probably Arcane Duelist) and the other person is playing a Hedge Witch (Going to be the party healer out of combat and Debuffer in combat)
I have a Ki Throw monk all set out, but since I have a few months I thought it would be fun to play with a few other builds. That and I'm wondering if I ONLY had these other two people if there wasn't a more optimized choice.
What do you think the most optimized choice would be with these two party members?
We're playing Jade Regent: Brinwall Legacy or another one that has more Undead and maybe Werewolves.
It depends on the game and the dm. It also depends on the skill set of the bard. Does this gm like to load adventures with traps? If so that is an important consideration. Will this be an urban adventure? Wilderness? Dungeon Crawl? Full of intrigue? Hack and slash? All that is important.
If I didnt have any of that information I'd say you are already in good shape. The bard can handle most skills, face duties, buffing and backup combat. The witch can handle most of the arcane and divine regions of magic. So what you need is a dedicated combatant, possibly with some control elements thrown in. Maybe a druid or summoner depending on the adventure. Particularly in a 3 person party a class with a big stompy buddy would help alot.
I think I'd say the best choice in terms of filling out the party would be the summoner. They have good battlefield control spells and the eidolon is an excellent front liner.
It depends on the game and the dm. It also depends on the skill set of the bard. Does this gm like to load adventures with traps? If so that is an important consideration. Will this be an urban adventure? Wilderness? Dungeon Crawl? Full of intrigue? Hack and slash? All that is important.
If I didnt have any of that information I'd say you are already in good shape. The bard can handle most skills, face duties, buffing and backup combat. The witch can handle most of the arcane and divine regions of magic. So what you need is a dedicated combatant, possibly with some control elements thrown in. Maybe a druid or summoner depending on the adventure. Particularly in a 3 person party a class with a big stompy buddy would help alot.
I think I'd say the best choice in terms of filling out the party would be the summoner. They have good battlefield control spells and the eidolon is an excellent front liner.
Thanks, I posted the adventure path the DM is considering in the main post. He's also considering something else - like Carrion Something Something, but I can't remember the name. I do remember it has a lot of undead and the Witch is prepared to take Misfortune instead of Evil Eye at level 1 as a result.
Now we're probably not going to make it past level 5 in this bit, so I'm not sure that a Druid is a very good choice. Summoner is intriguing... I DO like casters. If I could get away with a Wizard I would, but I'm not sure that's what the party needs.
I'm interested in hearing other ideas too though.
My real answer is "whatever you want."
But as to what I would play, or what would fill out niches that "need" to be covered...
My first thought was ranger (urban or trapper if you want trapfinding, otherwise core). Gives you a solid front liner, gives you some skills you don't otherwise have covered (Handle Animal, Ride, Survival, Swim), has a little divine spellcasting later on to help shore up healing, and if you want an extra friend, he has an animal companion (though not till 4th level, and since you're going only to 5th or so, that's the least incentive).
Other possibilities would be barbarian (also Survival class skill, Trap sense, and really boosts your melee, and can act as a major damage sink) or cavalier (similar reasons as the previous two, plus animal companion at level 1).
I also like the druid suggestion for casting. Inquisitor is also a possibility and would be a good divine casting counterpart to the bard. Or even full cleric could work well--a melee cleric who can self-buff and tank awhile while the bard buffs and flanks as other melee support, while the witch stands back and fires spells and debuffs from afar could be quite good. For arcane, I'd go more with a sorcerer than a wizard personally, I think the bloodlines could offer the kind of versatility needed in this kind of group.
Thanks, I posted the adventure path the DM is considering in the main post. He's also considering something else - like Carrion Something Something, but I can't remember the name. I do remember it has a lot of undead and the Witch is prepared to take Misfortune instead of Evil Eye at level 1 as a result.Now we're probably not going to make it past level 5 in this bit, so I'm not sure that a Druid is a very good choice. Summoner is intriguing... I DO like casters. If I could get away with a Wizard I would, but I'm not sure that's what the party needs.
I'm interested in hearing other ideas too though.
Carrion Crown Probably is what you are thinking of. And yea that has alot of undead in it, though if you think you wont make it past level 5 you certainly wont be completing either of those APs.
Witch, Wizard and bard would be a REALLY focused on summons, but you would be very vulnerable. Tactically, particuarly as a 3 person party, the Summoner is a better choice.
I guess I'll look at summoner builds then. Think the synthesist archetype is worth looking at?
Didn't I post this in the advice boards?
I guess I'll look at summoner builds then. Think the synthesist archetype is worth looking at?
Didn't I post this in the advice boards?
I am playing a synthesist right now, and its definately worth looking at. The only consideration is you lose out in the action economy side of things, which is positive in that it speeds up play at the table, but negative in that in a small party you WANT the action economy boost.
Keep in mind though things get a little tricky when dealing with a synthesist's eidolon so read through it carefully and check the faqs and previous forum discussions.
If it's undead heavy, Paladin or Ranger might be best. I have a dual shield ranger build concept that is great at tanking and bull rushing, though the witch doesn't get too many "mire of suck" area affect spells (but they do get some) to combo it with.
Summoner would be good just be virtue of being such a strong class. You can do Synthesist or regular, the plain eidolon is quite capable of tanking all on its own.
Another idea: I have a combat oriented Druid build that Is Menhir Savant Druid X / Master of Many Styles Monk 1 (and Sohei, but apparently by RAW just *adding* options to a bonus feats list is "changing" it and it won't stack w/ MoMS). Picks up Crane Wing and wis to AC for pretty decent defense, and eventually turns into an Allosaurus or large elemental to tear things up. First few levels are rough, though, you're just a druid w/o wildshape or crane wing fighting with a scythe or scimitar + heavy wooden shield.
The one stand out that I see missing is your divine casting and possibly your trap finding. All of the suggestions already given are great options, but I thought I'd throw a paladin option out there. It makes for a great front-line fighter and some divine casting later on. It also shores up some more healing. The front-line cleric could also be a great choice. Either of these choices give you access to channeling which is a great in combat healing tool, even if you only have 3 party members.
I currently am playing a hedge witch in a 3 person party and am planning on taking the trap finding spell to shore up that section. This is an option for your fellow witch.
So I'm getting from the comments that the bard cannot replace a rogue.
Hmm that makes me want to tend a little more toward the crypt breaker.
Bard can absolutely replace rogue. Magical traps will be bit harder to deal with as you need a dispel magic to break them, but otherwise covers it all just fine and adds much more that rogue does not.
Umm, no. You see Bard (except the Archaeologist) does not get the rogue talent that allows automatic trap Perception checks. This is critical in a old-school Gygaxian dungeon. But I dunno if that campaign has a lot of traps.
What you seem to need is a tank. One who is good vs undead. That means Pally, who can also heal himself, which is very nice. Ranger with Undead as Enemy also works, and can even be a Urban ranger (fairly good at traps, so is Ok if there aren’t a lot of them).
I'd definately go Pally.
Probably, Oath of Vengeance for extra smites.
I'd also consider the Body Guard Archetype Order of the shield Cavalier
Any party with an Inspire Courage Bard should consider a TWF,so for either of those classes I'd go sword and board TWF.
Both are really hard to kill and can bash foes away from your squishy witch.
The pally offers divine healing but the cav gets a pretty tough Animal companion from level 1 and the Bodyguard Archetype can protect allies better by upping thier AC.
Well, my DM has banned the Summoner, so I guess I'm looking at either Paladin or Crypt Breaker.
It sounds like Crypt Breaker is a great choice for an undead dungeon... Maybe I'll make a Wizard for if we're playing JR and a Crypt Breaker for if we're doing CC.
I think I'm going to go with Rogue.
We got another player so they can be the beef - preferably melee so I can have as many flank buddies as I can.
With Evil Eye and Inspire Courage I shouldn't have too much trouble hitting with TWF.