Crowbars as weapons


Rules Questions


The Core Rules say I can use a crowbar as an improvised weapon with the same stats as a club and the Catch Off-Guard feat will remove the -4 penalty for using improvised weapons. So...

Can someone make a masterwork crowbar and if so, does it get the normal +1 to hit bonus that a masterwork weapon receives?

Can it be made of special materials like cold iron or treated with alchemical silver?

Can it be enchanted like regular weapons?

Since it has a hook at one end, can it be used to make trip attacks?

Can I use weapon feats (like Weapon Focus) with it?

TIA!!
Mike


Inak wrote:

The Core Rules say I can use a crowbar as an improvised weapon with the same stats as a club and the Catch Off-Guard feat will remove the -4 penalty for using improvised weapons. So...

Can someone make a masterwork crowbar and if so, does it get the normal +1 to hit bonus that a masterwork weapon receives?

Can it be made of special materials like cold iron or treated with alchemical silver?

Can it be enchanted like regular weapons?

Since it has a hook at one end, can it be used to make trip attacks?

Can I use weapon feats (like Weapon Focus) with it?

TIA!!
Mike

Yes to all of the above. Masterworking it as a weapon cost +300 gp. Making it out of a special material such as adamantine or mithral follows their specific rules for weapon size and/or weight. Weapon Focus (improvised weapon) or perhaps (club) should be appropriate (perhaps check with your GM). Enchanting it as a weapon requires you have masterworked it. EDIT: While it doesn't possess the Trip weapon quality, last I checked it was determined that you may trip with any weapon (unless they changed their minds). If you use a weapon to trip someone, you get the enhancement bonus on the CMB check.


I always thought it was silly that crowbar, which is a forged metal item that costs money, is an improvised weapon for d6 damage, but a club, a free stick you pick up off the ground, is not improvised.

Sczarni

StreamOfTheSky wrote:
I always thought it was silly that crowbar, which is a forged metal item that costs money, is an improvised weapon for d6 damage, but a club, a free stick you pick up off the ground, is not improvised.

Dr. Freeman would like to have a word with you....

I was thinking the same thing. Also question why a piece of wood does 1d6 while a sharpened, pointed dagger only does 1d4.

I understand getting an adamantine crowbar cause it's stronger than steel, and therefore able to last longer when used repeatedly (ie, Half-orc rogue who doesn't believe in lockpicks).

The only thing I wouldn't say you could do would be to enchant it, since it's not actually a weapon. Enchantments make it so the weapon feels what the wielder wants to do, guiding them to hit and damage the target. A crowbar would only know to go for the right slot to open a door, not bash someone's skull in.


While it is possible to find a suitable "stick on the ground" to use as a club, it's a lot harder than you might think. Most "weaponized" clubs are modified in some way to make them more lethal. Either they have metal bands to hold them together or they have been wrapped with leather and carved to improve their balance. Think of trying to hit a baseball with any random stick vs hitting one with a Louisville Slugger.

In reality all forms of damage are potentially lethal. A club to the head delivered by a determined and powerful foe is actually more likely to be lethal than a stab wound. Crushing a skull is a pretty bad thing.

If I had a player who wanted to use a crowbar as a weapon, I would probably consider a special feat to allow him to do so, and I'd work up the stats for the weapon. It seems to me that a crowbar would make a pretty decent melee weapon wielded by someone with sufficient strength, and I would probably allow it to have the trip property.


Personally I'd just tell him to treat it as a club and be done with it. I think it's more than fair to treat weapon-like objects appropriately. I mean, if you grab a knife off a table, you could use it as a dagger, or a big carving knife as a short sword, or a cleaver as an ax or something similar. Crowbars, lead pipes, fire pokers? Club.

I think improvised weapon rules are more suitable for when you want to use something that really normally has no business being used as a weapon, such as a sack of potatoes, a random big rock, an still-intact chair (not a chair leg, but the whole chair), and other stuff that doesn't by any means resemble traditional weaponry.

That's just how I would handle it, however. That being said, clubs and stuff are still mighty effective weapons. I have some NPC orcs who run around with 0 gp worth of equipment (-1 CR), who are all brawn and no brains. They're the warrior NPC class, and our group just calls them berserkers. They're scary. They run into melee with their clubs deal 1d6+9 points of damage or so, and have Ferocity, so they can survive around 23 points of damage before succumbing at -14. They have no AC to speak of (+2 Dex is all), and their Will save bites (-2). The party typically tries to avoid them as best as possible, and take 'em out with stuff like colorspray.

Grand Lodge

Inak wrote:

Can someone make a masterwork crowbar and if so, does it get the normal +1 to hit bonus that a masterwork weapon receives?

Can it be enchanted like regular weapons?

If made masterwork, it is a masterwork tool, not a masterwork weapon. It therefore can't be enchanted as a magic weapon.

Inak wrote:
Can it be made of special materials like cold iron or treated with alchemical silver?

Yes.

Inak wrote:
Since it has a hook at one end, can it be used to make trip attacks?

Most weapons can be used to trip. It is not, however, a trip weapon.

Inak wrote:
Can I use weapon feats (like Weapon Focus) with it?

No, because you can't be proficient with it.

None of these problems occur if you call it a club. I'd have no problem with a 2gp club that also has the effect of a crowbar.

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