| Canuberon |
Hello all,
Just starting my first campaign in PF after playing 3.0 & 3.5 for 10+ years and trying out 4.0 2 game sessions.
We are starting a new campaign and we're going by the core books of PF and some stuff (DM specific) from 3.5.
I never got the chance to play a Dungeon Crasher Fighter in 3.5 (from the Dungeonscape book) and the DM is actually allowing that and the Knockback feat (from Races of Stone) now.
Is this going to work the same way it did in 3.5? Are fighters still supposed to just block the way to the squishier backline?
I noticed the Spiked Chain being nerfed but the Meteor Hammer could serve the same purpose and makes much more sense fluff wise.
Any advice on building a solid character like that?
Thanks in advance!
| Canuberon |
Oh, I'm sorry I didn't explain that more clearly:
Yeah, I'm used to the fighter tripping, disarming, bull rushing, ... the evil guys so they don't get to the wizard behind me. The build would've done some real damage in 3.5 as well, but the main intention was to bull rush people away from where I didn't want them.
Battlefield control first
AoO (with reach) second (wich is also control)
Damage third
blackbloodtroll
|
Well, first of all, those are all combat maneuvers and to note, a lot easier to deal with in pathfinder. The guisarme or whip is your weapon, and the Lore Warden fighter archetype is the best at combat maneuvers. You could also go Archer archetype fighter and perform combat maneuvers at a distance with a bow.
| Canuberon |
perform combat maneuvers at a distance with a bow.
I can bull rush with a bow? Darn!
I really want to play a high CON tank that just takes the hits with some DEX for the AoO's. CON>STR>DEX was what I was thinking (rolls, no point buy, so I don't know stats yet).
If I don't have to take a chain spike or meteor hammer, that saves me a EWP feat, wich is nice.
What book is the Lore Warden Fighter from and is there a consensus on a good build? Any guides I need to look at?
I know the rest of the party has played PF before and they love optimizing and I don't want to be a burden...
Muser
|
The Lore Warden archetype is here. It's originally from Pathfinder Field Guide, which a player or a gm might have if one happens to play Pathfinder Society.
I don't think you necessarily need a build. Lore Warden doesn't even need intelligence, since it gets Combat Expertise as a freebie, so you can concentrate on Con, Str and Dex. I'd almost suggest a dwarf, since they have a con bonus and bonuses against maneuvers and spells, poisons, etc. A dungeon crasher dwarf just fits, in my opinion.
If you pick dwarf, it qualifies your character for Dorn-dergar, which is very similar to a meteor hammer. Get this feat and this one as well and you'll have a versatile instrument in your hands.
Just my 2 cp.
| Canuberon |
<tugs away the coppers> I'm dirt poor experienced at this game :P
I'm at work so can't see the linkies at the moment.
Thanks for posting them, I'll check them later on today.
I also get the feeling that prestige classing is a lot less interesting for martials, is that correct?
In 3.5 you took 1 or 2 lvl's of Barbarian to be able to rage but this doesn't seem to be the case anymore, 4 lvl's of fighter for Weapon Specialization and then on to prestige classes, never to look back.
Sorry in advance if I'm comparing to much, it's just the only lead I have right now.
And thanks Blackbloodtroll and Muser for the quick answers (btw: have fun at the game tonight troll)!
redcelt32
|
There are only a few prestige classes, and other than the couple in the CRB and APG, they are all for regional flavor in Golarion(speciality knight and priest classes mostly).
Pathfinder uses archetypes to do a lot of the special ability and specialization stuff that prestige classes used to do in 3.5. Plus the main reason for prestige classes in 3.5 (lots of dead levels for many classes) is no longer true in Pathfinder.
There are still some decent dips in Pathfinder, but with more to lose in your main class now, its not quite as no-brainer as it was in 3.5.
Perhaps it won't fit your intended character build, but its worth noting that the oracle of battle can be a good maneuver character as well. One of the better trip characters I have seen was an oracle with guisarme, maneuver(trip) revelation and enlarge(of of their bonus spells).
| Gilfalas |
I'd almost suggest a dwarf, since they have a con bonus and bonuses against maneuvers and spells, poisons, etc. A dungeon crasher dwarf just fits, in my opinion.
He cannot choose dwarf if he wants to use the Knockback feat from Races of Stone. It has a prerequisite of being large sized or bigger or having the Powerful Build racial ability so that you can be treated as large sized.
Knockback will not work as written in 3.5 anymore due to the change in how power attack works. In our game we simply require you to power attack for Knockback to work and add the damage bonus from power attack to the CM roll for the bull rush. The rest is the same.
You may want to talk to your GM about it in any case, the above paragraph is very much a house rule which he may not want to use.
Also, iirc, there is a new Knockback feat in Ultimate Combat which you may want to look at.
| Canuberon |
I really need to speak against allowing 3.5 book with PF.
I trust you and agree. My GM however insists that his first time GM'ing should be as least restrictive as possible (my personal opinion is that it should be the other way around).
Also, iirc, there is a new Knockback feat in Ultimate Combat which you may want to look at.
I don't have that book so I'll see if any of the other players has it.
Can anybody tell me if I need to be large for that one and if it does the same?Thanks all for the nice ideas!
| Gilfalas |
Also, iirc, there is a new Knockback feat in Ultimate Combat which you may want to look at.
I don't have that book so I'll see if any of the other players has it.
Can anybody tell me if I need to be large for that one and if it does the same?A quick and dirty search of the PFSD20SRD site came up with 'Knockback' as a Barbarian Rage power. My memory may be faulty as a feat. I will have to go through the book tonight when I get home to check.
I really need to speak against allowing 3.5 book with PF. Any time I have seen or heard it happen it was a train wreck in terms of balance.
Well then consider this a tale where it has not been. Balance train wrecks only happen when the GM lets them and our GM allows pretty much all 3.5 and Pathfinder content and it has not been an issue in our game at all. It also helps that our group are not optimisers exept for me really and then I make sure the GM is aware of what I am trying to do and is ok with it. And I understand if she decides that after play something is too strong and work with her to change it for the better.
That has happened once btw.
| Canuberon |
Is ultimate combat SRD? They could be using the same name (strange as it would be).
Since u guys sort or less advised against to much multi classing, I think it's a bad idea to go Fighter6/Barbarian2 for that knockback?
I also explained quite clearly to my GM what I wanted to do with the build and even told him what things I wouldn't allow in my games. He also knows I'm helping the other inexperienced member with a wizard or witch build. It's not my intention to inbalance the game, I just know the rest of the players like to optimize and I'll need a bit of 'mojo' to keep up...
WhipShire
|
I really need to speak against allowing 3.5 book with PF. Any time I have seen or heard it happen it was a train wreck in terms of balance.
I disagree the two systems together allow you to create Awesome character idea/arcs... I love the combination of 3.5+PF.
Dungeon Crasher is close to an archetype as 3.5 has. If I remember right it just replaces your bonsue Fighter feats at level 4 and 6 with Bull rushing abilities to cause dmg... 4d6 and 8d6 but those numbers maybe off as I don;t have my book at this time. Sounds like a great character.
| bfobar |
I would recommend reading about the fighter archtypes here.
See if you see something that you like. Two-Handed fighter gets free bull rushes and trips with standard attacks starting at level 11. The polearm master gets better tripping at level 13. The weapon master is a critical hit beast that can stun-lock you foes at high levels. Even the straight fighter is good because of the armor mastery they get now. Consider trying a single class build with your first time and see what they can do. Fighters also let you retrain feats, so if you don't like how your build is going, fix it.
| Canuberon |
The link isn't working here at the workspot but I'll take a look at them this evening. Thx for the advice and info!
I'll go fighter then to start with something simple and try to max the CMD. Two handed sounds nice and probably the closest to what I was trying to do.
Any builds or feat progressions for those?