Are these decent stats for a two-weapon barbarian?

[Iziak]

Are these decent stats for a two-weapon-fighting barbarian?

Level 12 orc (not half-orc) barbarian, 15 point buy:
AC 23
HP 143
Fort +13, Ref +9, Will +4
DR 6/-
Melee:
+1 furious battleaxe +17/+12/+7 (1d8+8/x3) and
+2 furious longsword +17/+12/+7 (1d8+9/17–20)
Melee (while raging):
+1 furious battleaxe +22/+17/+12 (1d8+13/x3) and
+2 furious longsword +22/+17/+12 (1d8+14/17–20)
Rage lasts 30 rounds/day. I might use the elemental rage rage power [APG] for increased damage.

The low AC and saves really worry me, and the attack rolls aren't super-awesome looking either because of the -4 to each one from two-weapon combat. Having never played above level 10 before, do these look decent?

Thank you!

[Paul Zagieboylo]

I should think that for a dual-wield character you usually want to use the same weapon in each hand, to get double benefit from Weapon Focus and friends (apparently, Improved Critical for this guy). Since you're an orc, why not go with the orc double axe? It's equivalent to having a battleaxe in each hand, except that the second one is a "light weapon" but still does full d8/x3 damage. Which also reduces your dual wielding penalties to -2/-2. And you're proficient in it anyway! If you like the 19-20 criticals, one feat gets you any other double weapon such as the two-bladed sword.

Low AC is just kind of "the way it is" for a barbarian. I'm assuming 23 AC is during rage? Assuming Dex 19 (which you needed for GrTWF anyway), a +2 mithral breastplate, a ring of protection +2, and an amulet of natural armor +2, it should be 26 out of rage. And don't discount the DR, it's REALLY GOOD against anything with multiple attacks (which is almost everything).

Remember your will save goes up during rage. Still, I don't think I'd dump wisdom quite as hard as you seem to be doing here. Dump charisma instead, you don't really have any use for it except Intimidate, but your buddies will be pretty sad when you blow your saves against dominate person and slaughter them all horribly. The low-ish reflex save I wouldn't worry about. Things that require reflex saves are mostly just for half damage, and 12d12+60 hp is probably enough that you can afford to eat the occasional full-damage chain lightning if you have to.

[Tels]

Paul hit it on the head. If you're going to dual wield, you want to try and stick to the same weapons so bonuses stack. For instance, taking Exotic Proficiency and picking up Sawtooth Saber which is equivalent of a longsword, but the offhand is treated as a light weapon. Improved crit would give you 1d8 17-20 x2, which for a Barbarian is a terrifying thought. Or, like he said, save a feat and take the double-axe.

[Robespierre]

Same weapons and I suggest 2handing instead of twf. Unless you really want to twf.

[Robespierre]

Also consider the spell displacement and ask your caster to put it on you.

[Iziak]

Thanks everyone; some clarifications of the original stats.

The AC is NOT in rage. It will go down another couple points while raging.

For thematic reasons, it is really important that he have these two specific types of weapons (battleaxe and broadsword; since there's no broadsword in the game, longsword is being used instead). I know that using two different weapons is worse than using two of the same weapon, and that two-handed fighting is generally better than two-weapon fighting.

But, thinking about it further, I might go with "having the two weapons be the same thing mechanically and reskin them in-game". That way the penalties wouldn't be as problematic, and it would still work in-character.

Tels: What book is the sawtooth saber in? I don't recall seeing it in the CRB.

Thanks everyone!

[ThatEvilGuy]

Having two one handed weapons is even a worse choice since you're being hit with a -4 penalty on all your attacks when TWFing, which also means your iterative attacks will have next to no chance of hitting anyways minus a reliable source to boost your attack rolls. Like a bard.

[ThatEvilGuy]

Sawtooth saber is in the Inner Sea World Guide I believe.

[Muser]

Two different weapons are fine, there's only one feat that I can think you might want which works better if both weapons are the same: Weapon Focus. And that's not really integral to a well-built barbarian. You've got enough sources of attack boni as it is. Improved Critical, on the other hand, is only worth taking if you really can't find keen weapons. It's not a prerequisite for another feat, unlike Critical Focus, so you can skip it pretty easily.

Hmm, on stats, never go above 17 dex with a two weapon fighter, unless you are using Weapon Finesse. You are pretty feat-starved as it is and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting isn't really worth taking. Dumb charisma somewhat, but save intelligence, since you've got plenty of nice skills for the taking. Wisdom is so so, you aren't really desperate for it, since the rage offers bonuses to saves and there's traits and racial abilities, such as sacred tattoo in play as well. I'd never dumb it though.

Once you get Improved TWF, your damage can get pretty spectacular. Couple that with the Witch Hunter damage bonus rage power and there won't be too many beasties in the Bestiaries that can resist your blows for long. World Serpent totem powers are a nice boost for a two-weapon fighter, since they give you dr-piercing capabilities, but beast totem is fine too.

Hope it does you good.

[Tels]

Sawtooth Saber is in the Inner Sea World Guide. It is functionally identical to a longsword, except that if you have Exotic, you can treat it as a light weapon in your offhand. You could argue the precedence for a feat that allows you to use your 'broadsword' as a light weapon in your off hand.

If your GM won't allow that, then start thinking of a magic property that will allow it. Maybe something like a 2,000 x weapons weight gp addition allows the weapon to be treated as a light weapon for TWF purposes.

Also, Double Slash is a must. Make your GM cry when you hit >:)

[Paul Zagieboylo]

Ah, yes, the advice to skip GrTWF is probably good; attacks at -10 aren't really that hot, so there's not much point burning a feat to get another one. In that case, if your Dex is only going to 17 you can skip mithral armor too, which should free up a lot of cash for something more useful. Double Slice is definitely a keeper though; forgot about that one but it's a good idea for any Str-based TWFer. Your GM may or may not rule that your offhand gets full benefit from Power Attack if you have Double Slice. I would rule that it is clearly intended to (otherwise Double Slice is kind of weak as a full feat), but I have no RAW support for this position, so check with your GM first.

If you're not bothering with Weapon Focus or Improved Critical (which is totally a reasonable option for a feat-starved TWF barbarian), you can go with dissimilar weapons if you like, it doesn't matter. But you should still probably be using a light weapon in the offhand, and it's going to deal 1d6 base damage, not 1d8. This is only a difference of 1 damage per offhand attack on average, and the extra +2 attack more than makes up for it. What is the thematic reason for needing those two particular weapons? If you want something that acts "like" a broadsword, but is a light weapon, go for the gladius from Ultimate Combat; it's just a short sword that also deals slashing damage. Or make the broadsword your primary weapon and downgrade your axe to a hand axe, since it's kind of tough to justify a "broadsword-like" light weapon. Either works fine.

[Crysknife]

Muser wrote:

Improved Critical, on the other hand, is only worth taking if you really can't find keen weapons.

I think it should be said that it's better to get improved critical and +1 weapon than weapon focus and keen weapon. The first option will net you +1 point of damage and let you dypass some DR (depending on the bonus).

That said, for this build is perfectly legitimate to skip both.

To the OP: one feat you should consider with your STR is two-weapon rend. I would take it instead of greater TWF, an attack at -10 is not going to hit that often anyway.

[Iziak]

Thanks again everybody! There's some great advice here, especially with the sawtooth saber and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting not being all that "great".

I should be able to rebuild the character now so that he still fits both my original vision and has some nicer stats.

Thank you!