Just some game stuff that came up in play tonight...
Do Eidolons sleep? Would it be a practical use to have one stand guard all night while everyone else slept?
What about using Summoned creatures for non-combat purposes?
I have a halfling Master Summoner who prefers to only summon elementals due to the variety of circumstances in which they are useful. He took Linguistics as a skill so that he could eventually speak in Ignan, Aquan, Auran and Terran and command them - and tonight some non-combat uses came up. I wanted to get some opinions on whether or not summoned creatures could be used this way.
In one instance we had a swarm attack a wizard and we had no way to defeat it, no AoE type attacks or anything - but I summoned a fire elemental and had it use burn on the wizard. Our cleric continuously healed him while the swarm took damage every round when they 'attacked' the wizard until it finally died. Here is the text for Burn:
A creature with the burn special attack deals fire damage in addition to damage dealt on a successful hit in melee. A creature affected by the burn ability must also succeed on a Reflex save or catch fire, taking the listed damage at the start of its turn for an additional 1d4 rounds (DC 10 + 1/2 the attacking creature’s racial HD + the attacking creature’s Con modifier). A burning creature can attempt a new save as a full-round action. Dropping and rolling on the ground grants a +4 bonus on this save. creatures that hit the monster with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the monster’s burn attack and must make a Reflex save to avoid catching on fire.
In another instance I summoned earth elementals, sent them through a wall into a room to destroy the bar holding shut a heavy door so that we could gain entry - we decided they were good only for brute force solutions (as opposed to lifting the bar).
In still another I summoned a large Air Elemental to ferry characters across a chasm by using Whirlwind on them characters made a reflex save to resist the damage but forwent the reflex save to avoid being scooped up... here is the text for Whirlwind:
A creature that comes in contact with the whirlwind must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the monster’s HD + the monster’s Strength modifier) or take damage as if it were hit by the whirlwind creature’s slam attack. It must also succeed on a second Reflex save or be picked up bodily and held suspended in the powerful winds, automatically taking the indicated damage each round. A creature that can fly is allowed a Reflex save each round on its turn to escape the whirlwind. The creature still takes damage that round but can leave if the save is successful.
Creatures trapped in the whirlwind cannot move except to go where the whirlwind carries them or to escape the whirlwind. Trapped creatures can otherwise act normally, but must succeed on a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell. creatures caught in the whirlwind take a –4 penalty to Dexterity and a –2 penalty on attack rolls. The whirlwind can have only as many creatures trapped inside at one time as will fit inside the whirlwind’s volume. As a free action, the whirlwind can eject any carried creatures whenever it wishes, depositing them in its space.
Anyway, I'd appreciate thoughts on these and other non-combat uses of summoned monsters and whether or not you or your GM would allow them in your games - and if not, why?
Eidolons are outsiders, and do not sleep. However, they do go away when the summoner falls asleep.
The burn is not contagious; the wizard does not gain the ability to deal fire damage to others just because he is on fire. The fire elemental could have just stood in the swarm like an angry little bug zapper, though. The Air elemental's whirlwind makes a great vaccuum cleaner where swarms are concerned.
I suggest this get moved to the advice thread, though.
Eidolons are outsiders, and do not sleep. However, they do go away when the summoner falls asleep.
The burn is not contagious; the wizard does not gain the ability to deal fire damage to others just because he is on fire. The fire elemental could have just stood in the swarm like an angry little bug zapper, though. The Air elemental's whirlwind makes a great vaccuum cleaner where swarms are concerned.
I suggest this get moved to the advice thread, though.
I posted it here because I was concerned whether or not this was something that could be done according to the rules - in the spell Summon Monster it stipulates that the summoned creatures 'fight for you to the best of their ability', but says nothing about doing other things.
The Wizard wasn't dealing Fire Damage - he was burning, and as stated in the Burn description whenever someone or something makes an unarmed attack against a burning foe they take damage... the swarm attacked the wizard every round and took damage when it did until it was destroyed.
I posted it here because I was concerned whether or not this was something that could be done according to the rules - in the spell Summon Monster it stipulates that the summoned creatures 'fight for you to the best of their ability', but says nothing about doing other things.
The Wizard wasn't dealing Fire Damage - he was burning, and as stated in the Burn description whenever someone or something makes an unarmed attack against a burning foe they take damage... the swarm attacked the wizard every round and took damage when it did until it was destroyed.
I see.
Yes; If you can communicate with a summon, you can ask it to do non-combat tasks, and they comply to the best of their ability and understanding.
He was on fire, and yes, that means he was burning, but it does not grant him the "burn" special attack. That line refers to creatures attacking the fire elemental directly. Could have been worded better, though.
I posted it here because I was concerned whether or not this was something that could be done according to the rules - in the spell Summon Monster it stipulates that the summoned creatures 'fight for you to the best of their ability', but says nothing about doing other things.
The Wizard wasn't dealing Fire Damage - he was burning, and as stated in the Burn description whenever someone or something makes an unarmed attack against a burning foe they take damage... the swarm attacked the wizard every round and took damage when it did until it was destroyed.
I see.
Yes; If you can communicate with a summon, you can ask it to do non-combat tasks, and they comply to the best of their ability and understanding.
He was on fire, and yes, that means he was burning, but it does not grant him the "burn" special attack. That line refers to creatures attacking the fire elemental directly. Could have been worded better, though.
Totally misunderstood the power as it was written, but re-reading it in the light of what you've said, I see how I was wrong. Thanks for your responses.
I would like to note that had you tried that in my game I totally would have let it happen, as it was a clever and funny solution to a problem.
Frankly, swarms are enough of a pain in the arse that making an exception here is justified. So it's not RAW, but high fives for you and your DM.