RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Good afternoon,
I just wanted to pop in and give some feedback regarding the faction missions in recent scenarios. As a GM, I have been finding it frustrating when there is not enough information given to actually play out a faction mission. In many of the newer scenarios, the faction missions require the PCs to find out a certain piece of information, but never actually say what that information is! Or do things like Sense Motive on a person to gauge their reaction to a particular phrase, but not actually say whether that person knows anything or not. This makes it very difficult to roleplay out these scenes without just making up something. And since these are things that are obviously very important to the different factions, I don't know what may or may not be revealed later in the plot.
For some concrete examples, consider The Frostfur Captives:
Osirion PCs are asked to find out what is being mined near Harvest's End, and how much of it is going to the capitol. While a contact is provided in town, along with DCs for getting him to talk, the adventure never actually says what is being mined or how much, just that "Jarrag’s twin sons were sent to the mines years ago, and he learned quite a bit from trying to determine if they were still alive."
In both cases, the lack of information makes it very difficult to actually roleplay out the faction missions, and encourages GMs to just "roll through" the missions (e.g. "OK, you find the guy, make a Diplomacy check. Great, you got the information you need! 1PP for you!"). For me, at least, this breaks my immersion and results in a less satisfying play experience.
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It is far more important to have a polished product than to leave 'options' open for some hypothetical future mod. Any writer that wants to make use of the mine info would probably appreciate knowing what they were mining, rather than having to devote their limited word count to filling in backstory.
What, specifically, did Tides of Twilight leave out that Tides of Mourning added? Was it another "You succeed, and the guy tells you stuff (but don't ask me what)." mission?
By putting in the information, you aren't 'limiting options' you are telling a complete, believable story. That's the point, right?
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Faction missions have been the bane of my existence as well. The last one I ran King Xeros, the faction mission was very vague. The one I ran before that gave out a contradictory mission that wasn't even in the mod. (Have to break into the PGS Lodge without letting anyone know you're there; faction mission: you need to talk to guys X, Y, Z. Guys X, Y, Z ARE NOT IN THE MOD! Listed in Seeker of Secrets though.) Been a few times where I've re-read the mod and tried to find the information or clue they were looking for. It gets annoying.
I recently found that Shipyard Rats had a similar issue.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4
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@ Tamago,
Discussing Frostfur Captives specifically:
First of all, I agree with your overall point, and I accept responsibility for the weak writing. I apologize if it frustrated you, Mystic Lemur, and others. Sorry all round!
In the case of the Silver Crusade, I should have provided a definite answer one way or another. As a partial defense, there was limited information available on what the future role of the "evil remnant if the evil Shadow Lodge" was going to be, if at all. Incidentally, I still don't know if the 'evil Shadow Lodge remnants' was ever mentioned again in Season 3. Nevertheless, I had to provide a probably link between Irrisen and the rebels. Based on some of the Shards of Ice material, and a suggestion in the outline it seemed logical that the rebels might retreat to Irrisen. Where power for it's own sake is valued, the government is potentially hostile (but willing to take a bribe).
Nevertheless, you're quite right. I should have explained the answer one way or another. I left that too open for interpretation. If you asked me in retrospect, I'd tell you yes. However, the demands of word count would probably prohibit me from going into greater detail.
I was trying to avoid a contrived mission to fetch a trinket, or something that otherwise seemed mundane and a waste of time for a trained investigator.
Regarding the mines, again, I take your point entirely. My bad. I was cross-referencing some information from the Inner Sea Guide and possibly Cities of Golarion and I failed to provide a bridge, or enough details to give it the proper contest.
Again, my intention was to provide a more meaningful mission. I will try harder!!
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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@Jim,
Thanks very much! It's good to know that concerns like this are being heard, and I look forward to improvements in the future.
And for what it's worth, I agree that the missions you wrote are more interesting than "fetch the trinket" . I don't think there needs to be *much* more information -- a sentence or two that specifically states what the information is would probably be enough.
I look forward to improvements to these sorts of things in the future!
(BTW, I've played Frostfur and have run it multiple times, and it's a blast! Particularly the encounter with the troll is lots of fun. I also like that it's a module where there is a very real possibility of failing the mission without the Party getting wiped out, which doesn't happen very often. Thanks very much!)
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** spoiler omitted **I recently found that Shipyard Rats had a similar issue.
** spoiler omitted **
Doh! You're right! In reading the "creatures" section of the encounter, I focused on the bad guys and just glazed over the descriptions of the slaves to be freed. Then the "mission notes" section didn't mention him again, as it should have, so I missed his presence there.