Using Power Attack + Cleave in the same attack possible?

[chase128]

Our playgroup started our first Pathfinder campaign together today and we came across a situation I would like yalls input on.

Our Ranger wanted to use Power Attack and Cleave on the same attack. Is this possible?

[Talonhawke]

Yes its a standard action that nets him -1 to hit and -2 to ac for +2 damage(assuming one handed weapon) and if he hits he gets to attack an enemy adjacent to the first one.

[Talonhawke]

Should point out the above is assuming 1st level.

[bigkilla]

Power Attack does not take any type of actions while Cleave is a standard action so yes.Power Attack should work with almost any other feat except Piranha Strike.

[Robespierre]

Yes they work together. However unless your DM is generous avoid cleave because it will barely ever work and will become very situational after 5th level.

[bigkilla]

Power attack stated its for melee weapons and Deadly Aim says it works for ranged weapons so they do not work together.

[Talonhawke]

Cleave opens up cleaving finish however so it can be decent if you run into mob encounters over bruisers.

[Robespierre]

Yeah I read feats over again bigkilla. Talonhawke a two feats for something that conditional isn't worth it. The only reason I would take it is if my DM was running a war campaign with tons of goons. Of course if that were true I might just play a zen archer or a blaster wizard.

[Talonhawke]

Yeah its situational but so are being a zen archer or a blaster at times. For a ranger yeah its a big dip for a fighter it can set up some great moments of fun for the player when it happens.

An example was the first time one of my friends played PF with us he ended up with 8 skeletons around him while he was staggered he manged to take his mace and cleave his way through all 8 of them with cleaving finish. He was just proud and thought about how epic it was that instead of getting probably killed when they went next on Init.

Yeah it situational but for some players those situations are what bring enjoyment to the table above and beyond having a perfect build.

[Evil Lincoln]

Amusingly, Power Attack makes Cleave less likely to work (and yet it is a pre-req). Have you brushed up on the difference between 3.5 and PF Cleave?

[Robespierre]

I'm not talking about being "perfect", I'm talking about being sensible. You're right about the blaster and zen archer being not as great during certain times. However they are no where near to the point of bad as the cleave tree is. I just don't believe incorporating bad feats into my builds just so I can hit two extra things twice a campaign. Perhaps we're coming from different worlds though. My DM usually flanks with his characters and makes sure blasting spells and cleave don't work that effectively. Just because that's what they would realistically do in a combat. I don't justify feat trees with miracles.

[Talonhawke]

Neither do i but I do justify builds with fun and if the player is having fun within the rules then all is good. As a DM i give players those situations because its not cool to me that the fighter who took cleave only sees a pair of enemies in the right situation 2 ro 3 times over the course of a campaign but the rogue gets plenty of traps the bard plently of social things and the ranger plenty of chances to go track happy.

[Rocky Williams 530]

I never take cleave because our DM believes in making enemies smart enough to flank do so. However, if we were going to do some sort of campaign where we were fighting stupid creatures, I might be a bit more inclined to take it. Or, if it let you attack things adjacent to you, not necessarily each other.

[oneplus999]

Power attack can be turned on before ANY attack roll, it just can't be turned off until the start of your next turn. I assume this is to prevent being able to use it off your first iterative attack, then turn it on for your -5's.

This means one option is to cleave without power attack on your first roll, and if it lands, THEN power attack on the second hit. Each one is an attack roll and therefore can have power attack activated right before it. Additionally, you could cleave completely without power attack, then decide to power attack with an AOO after your turn.