So... my druid's animal companions in 3.5 were not large enough to ride. Now that I've converted her to Pathfinder, I find her in the company of a large tiger.
What exactly do I need to do to get her to be able to ride the tiger? What is the best way to set this up? I assume I need a custom made masterwork saddle. What else is needed?
Technically with enough ranks in ride you won't need a saddle. All you really need is the animal tricks for 'combat training'.
"Combat Training: An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes 6 weeks. You may also “upgrade” an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat by spending 3 weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal's previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Many horses and riding dogs are trained in this way."
I also suggest spending the extra trick to have it combat rained to Improved, so it will attack freaky things like undead.
Ride skill in the rulebook will have the die rolls and uses for you.Saddle won't have to be masterwork AFAIK.
Fight with a combat-trained mount DC 10 ride (free action) so you want to be able to auto-succeed that.
Riding bareback is a -5 to ride checks, but a bonus of 15 would give you the auto-succeed threshold for combat riding.
Is that the type of things you were looking for?
Also, you simply need an Exotic saddle.
"Animal Gear, Saddle (exotic)
An exotic saddle is designed for an unusual mount. Exotic saddles come in military (60gp, +2 bonus on ride on checks to stay in saddle), pack, and riding (30 gp) styles."
Thanks, so let's see if I have it:
It's her animal companion, so training it for combat seems trivial. Is "combat training" an additional trick in addition to the tricks "attack, come, defend, down, guard and heel"?
Right now her ride skill is at +11. (She is level 8). So with a saddle she auto-succeeds at riding in combat already.
So other than the training, all she needs is a saddle?
Does the "Fight with a combat-trained mount" mean she can do full attacks from the back of the mount while the mount moves at her command?
Combat Training is a 'trick package' consisting of 6 specific tricks.(which uses up all of an int2 animals trick allotment. +1 extra trick for improved attack.)
To answer your fight/mount question, the following text.
Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action.
Basically getting to ride +9 on a combat trained mount is the gateway to 'proficient mounted combat', the baseline to do it competently. You have room to improve from there, by sinking feats into things like the mounted combat chain and other stuff. Also remember that spellcasting while on a moving mount uses concentration checks.
Fortunately druids get freebie extra tricks so the 7 are easy to have. (I also typically raise AC's to Int3 with their first stat point.) I have also used a trick to teach the AC to attack to subdue. (mine calls it the 'PLAY!' command.)
Thanks. As it happens, the tiger's nine current tricks (six for 2 int, three bonus tricks) are: attack, improved attack, come, heel, track, guard, defend, down and stay.
Does that mean she doesn't need to teach it any additional tricks? Or does it mean if I "train" it for combat it loses "stay" and "track"?
Is the "play" trick a custom trick you worked out with your GM?
Thanks. As it happens, the tiger's nine current tricks (six for 2 int, three bonus tricks) are: attack, improved attack, come, heel, track, guard, defend, down and stay.
Does that mean she doesn't need to teach it any additional tricks? Or does it mean if I "train" it for combat it loses "stay" and "track"?
Is the "play" trick a custom trick you worked out with your GM?
With that list of tricks your tiger is combat trained rule wise. So you are set on that score.
The trick packages are said to use up all the tricks of an animal because a normal animal can have a maximum of 6 tricks at Int2. Your companion laughs at them and says: 'see what else i can do? nyah nyah.'
Regarding my 'play' example above. The text for Tricks is as follows.
"Possible tricks (and their associated DCs) include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:"
Spending a trick to give a combat option to an AC that is within its capabilities to perform was something my DM was fine with. Animals will naturally flank (wolfpack tactics?) but i could also easily see spending a trick to command an AC to aid another as a combat option as well. Take a moment to think 'outside the box' on that list. Adding a few extra simple options via trick use adds new levels of adaptation to the flow of encounters you can be useful in.
Lastly, since the AC's get 3 tricks per Int point, by raising Int to 3 you should gain 3 more tricks also.
Just raise it's Int to 3 and you have an intelligent mount, now you can do all kinds of insanity and get away with it.
well technically you have to raise its int to 3 AND pick lingusitics (1 language your druid knows) to actually have an intelligent animal you can converse with, which basically bypasses the whole tricks nonsense.
Note that this doesn't grant the animal the physical ability to speak (though it can certainly understand) and, technically, in no way bypasses the rules set forth in the trick system (though many people house rule that it does).
I've avoided raising my AC's int to 3 for game balance reasons.
We've only recently converted from 3.5 to Pathfinder. There is no doubt that Pathfinder druids are significantly less powerful than 3.5 druids, but I still have a lingering concern over game balance issues since my druid was so thoroughly overpowered in 3.5 compared to the rest of the party. She was so overpowered that I deliberately gimped her in 3.5, and she was still the go-to party member to keep any encounter from getting out of hand.
In the three sessions we've had in Pathfinder she seems much more balanced, but she still is one of the more powerful members in the party. I mostly want to ride the tiger for role playing reasons, I just love the idea of this little green-haired girl coming into town on the back of a snarling, vicious beast.
Is there anything in the rules about bridles or reins? By RAW I can ride the tiger bareback and with no bridle or reins and that's still just a -5 right?
With her +11 to ride checks, if she is bareback, then to ride into combat would mean taking a -5 to her ride check, meaning that if she rolls a 3 or less she could fail. As I understand it, that means the command fails, so she would say "go!" and the tiger would just stand there, correct?
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Did anyone else first imagine some sort of drug euphemism?
Anyway, if it's still your archer druid you're in for a treat. You can full attack while mounted with no penalties, so long as your tiger only takes a single move. It's -4 if your tiger is double moving, but you essentially have the ability now to move and full attack with no issues. If you can find a spare feat, mounted combat is great for protecting your mount, but I would actually avoid mounted archery, as it only reduces the penalty for double moving and firing, and it doesn't even get rid of it altogether.
@mergy, I don't really see mounted combat being a big deal for my archer druid. It's mostly for role play fluff. Although in the case of being surprised or something, she might attack from the back of the mount.
I can see situations coming up where she's firing her bow from the back of the tiger, but generally if we're in combat, that tiger is going to be meleeing, and she's not going to be shooting her bow or casting spells from the middle of melee.
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There's something to be said for having your bases covered. If they can't catch you, they can't kill you, and all the while you're turning them into a pin cushion. If they can catch you, then they're going to be full attacked by a tiger, who will then 5-foot step backwards, allowing you to turn them into a pin cushion point-blank. There is also the mounted circumstance bonus on attacks against smaller enemies, always a nice touch.
Does the +1 apply to ranged attacks? I thought it was only for melee.
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Did anyone else start hearing Dio in their head when they read the post title?
Did anyone else start hearing Dio in their head when they read the post title?
Heh, I'm an old fogey, I don't even recognize the reference.
Aww.... I came in here looking for a thread about Dio.....
I'm not sure about the +1, but I think they'd also take a -1 to hitting you (although I may just be making stuff up now).
I guess I better check.
I know that I can make a "cover" check and get cover while riding. I love that I can do that and the cover doesn't get hit by the arrow. :)
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Did anyone else start hearing Dio in their head when they read the post title?Heh, I'm an old fogey, I don't even recognize the reference.
But . . . the album came out in '83 . . . wouldn't that make those of us who remember it Old Fogeys?
*feels like he is caught in some weird anti-backwards time loop*
Did anyone else start hearing Dio in their head when they read the post title?Heh, I'm an old fogey, I don't even recognize the reference.But . . . the album came out in '83 . . . wouldn't that make those of us who remember it Old Fogeys?
*feels like he is caught in some weird anti-backwards time loop*
'83 I was still in my "Disco killed rock and roll" mindset and I hadn't yet turned back on the radio stations I had turned off when the incessant peals of screaming mice had started to emanate from all channels.... I probably didn't turn the radio back on until sometime around 1990...
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Be sure to give both you and your tiger the Escape Route teamwork feat. With it, you are both immune to movement related attacks of opportunity while mounted.
That way you can run past a hoard of underlings without fear in order to pounce the rear leader to death--just like in the animes! :D
@RD, well, the druid and tiger in question already have their feats chosen, and neither has "Escape Route". And as I doubt she will be mounted in combat much, I would probably rather invest further in the archery feat tree or start grabbing some more standard druid feats.
So.... if I have the ride skills, can I wildshape into a monkey and ride the tiger into town?
That's just too awesome...
I didn't mean right away. :P
You can pick them up later.
I've been playing this druid for five years. She's level 8. At that rate she'll be level 16 in 2017...
I'll keep it in mind. ;-)
As a horseman myself I might say that saddle would be acceptable, but a druid shouldn't need reigns. Yes, even reins with no bit.
I'm gonna play it totally bareback, no reins, no bit... Just her and her massive tiger.
Yeah, she might fail a ride into combat check from time to time, but it's just too freaking cool.