Catch Off-Guard feat + masterwork item

[speacekh]

I got this idea from a previous game I was in about a cook going around adventuring. He was looking for new and exotic food spices, dishes etc.

My question is if my character takes the catch off guard feat to use say a rolling pin in combat. Using the masterwork tool on his rolling pin for the bonus to cooking. Does the masterwork bonus then also apply to using in combat?

[Herald of the Vile]

No, unfortunately the rules for improvised weapons state, as I recall, 'when using an item for any other purpose than for what it is designed, such as in combat, you take a -4 penalty on attacks with the item.' Meaning, that in order for your 'masterwork tool' to be equivalent to a Masterwork Rolling Pin (Club), it would have to be a special acception to the rule. Summary: masterwork tools are not masterwork weapons or items, the benefits they gain for their masterwork 'archetype' are detailed in their descriptions.
-Herald of the Vile.

[mdt]

@Herald

That's faulty logic. A MW Katana is still a MW Katana, even if it's wielded by someone who is not proficient with it. So the person wilding it would have a +1 (MW) and a -4 (NonProf) for an overall -3 to their melee attack. Same as someone picking up a +4 Katana would have an effective 0 using the weapon if they were non-proficient.

The answer is still 'no' to the OP, but for a different reason. A MW item is not a MW weapon. The price of a MW on a weapon is +300gp, on an item it's usually +50 or +100gp.

Now, you could theoretically have your MW rolling pin (+2 baking) also be a MW club (+1 to hit), but you'd have to pay both MW costs.

[LazarX]

No for the simple reason that it's masterful design has absolutely nothing to do with combat.

[speacekh]

Thanks for the imput. The masterful design and not for combat is what I was thinking. Just making sure I was correct.

[Herald of the Vile]

mdt wrote:

@Herald

That's faulty logic. A MW Katana is still a MW Katana, even if it's wielded by someone who is not proficient with it. So the person wilding it would have a +1 (MW) and a -4 (NonProf) for an overall -3 to their melee attack. Same as someone picking up a +4 Katana would have an effective 0 using the weapon if they were non-proficient.

The answer is still 'no' to the OP, but for a different reason. A MW item is not a MW weapon. The price of a MW on a weapon is +300gp, on an item it's usually +50 or +100gp.

Now, you could theoretically have your MW rolling pin (+2 baking) also be a MW club (+1 to hit), but you'd have to pay both MW costs.

Unfortunately, your solution isn't in the rules. I also believe you misunderstood what I said in my original response. Essentially: A masterwork tool is not a masterwork weapon, therefore when you attack with it you don't get a +1 on attacks to mitigate the -4 penalty for using an Improvised weapon. Until such a time as there is an errata saying otherwise, the two are not the same.

-Herald

[Talonhawke]

No but the Catch off guard feat eliminates the -4 penalty all together.

[Herald of the Vile]

Talonhawke wrote:

No but the Catch off guard feat eliminates the -4 penalty all together.

Correct anyone with catch off guard is essentially 'Improvised Weapon Proficiency' and would negate the normal penalty, though it still doesn't enable you to change the object from a 'tool' into a 'weapon' it simply makes it so that you've used unorthodoxed items before and have since specialized in there use. It's masterwork tool benefit doesn't become a masterwork weapon.

[blackbloodtroll]

Masterwork arrows?

[mdt]

Herald of the Vile wrote:

Unfortunately, your solution isn't in the rules. I also believe you misunderstood what I said in my original response. Essentially: A masterwork tool is not a masterwork weapon, therefore when you attack with it you don't get a +1 on attacks to mitigate the -4 penalty for using an Improvised weapon. Until such a time as there is an errata saying otherwise, the two are not the same.

-Herald

Yes, it is in the rules. Look at the magic item chapter, stacking enchantments. You could easily stack '+2 Club' with '+2 to Profession (Baking)' on the same item, and call it a masterwork chef's rolling pin.

As to the rest, I never said a MW item was a MW weapon, unless you're specifically creating an item that is both. Please go back and re-read my posts.