Dumping Armor Proficency


Homebrew and House Rules


I've always hated heavy armor. It is such a drag to make a fighter and have this awesome ability you aren't using. Heavy armor is worth at least a couple of points of AC and really, I like writing up fighters that don't bother with it. Wouldn't it be nice to get that perk back?

Especially sense I've been thinking up a lot of specialist NPCs, a lot of whom function just in court or in cities and never see a battlefield or dungeon. It would be nice to trade in the armor skills for Skill Focuses or other feats. So what are they worth to you?

I've been letting players give up heavy armor for a feat for a long time. I'm thinking of expanding it to being able to give up Heavy, Medium and Light for a feat each if you would like.

Thoughts?


Against. Simply because...

Fighter: "I'm trained in war, but I was never trained to use armor."

If you don't want to use it, then don't. If you do, go ahead. It's like saying I never play females, so wouldn't it be nice to have sex choice as a trait?

/female disparity thread reference.


If it fits for your game I would do it. My group would not accept the trade though since the AC would be needed. Well maybe if they were an archer, but not if they were in melee.


Fighters are already the most feat-rich class in the game. I see no need to bloat their feat bag even further.


Use a fighter archetype that isn't proficient with heavy armor?

Grand Lodge

Mate - I've been thinking along the same lines for a while myself.

That said it can quickly get overpowered... if they were never ever gonna use full plate etc and want to change to Eldritch heritage, Iron Will etc then thats in effect "giving" additional feats away and can lead to considerable abuses, especially if a) the level is a dip for monk or caster or b) a dip for another class that then GIVES that armour as part of the class.

I'd say give a NARROW range of options (predominantly defense) - ie Dodge, weapon expertise etc, and prehaps teamwork feats

I'd also THINK about making it a 2 for 1 deal to avoid feat bloat - so Tower shield/shield use for one feat and medium/heavy for another. This could apply for feats outside the narrow range.

edit
Fianlly to avoid patching the short falls, by taking another martial class, they get only ONE of the feats featured by the class... so fighter dumps to light armour and no shield, then takes Cavalier - they can have medium armour OR shield use ONLY.


Feat starvation at low levels is already the most difficult part of the game to manage for most interesting concepts. Letting a fighter who would only wear light armor anyway gain three or four feats for doing so allows that fighter to become a combat god at early levels.

I suppose at high enough levels that feat bloat starts to occur the extra feats aren't that big of a deal, but I rarely play at that level anyway.

If my GM allowed this it would be hard to justify playing anything but a fighter at level one to grab all the feats you can (up to what, five?) and then pick whatever path you want from that point on.


I allow players to drop medium/heavy armor proficiency, armor training, armor mastery, and bravery to get best reflex and evasion at 7th level. Most of the players in my group really lean more toward to mobile/skirmish types than tradition knight in full plate. There really should be an archetype that supports a nimble character that doesn't trade class features for full attack, and doesn't take away weapon training. All in all, I think too many archetypes take away weapon training which is the only thing that makes the dang class playable to begin with.


Hmmm, food for thought.

I didn't think about giving up Tower Shield / Shield. So yeah, 1 feat for both medium and heavy armor and one for tower shield / shield sounds fair. But is it really?

If you take four extra feats of attack options, all you are is a better glass cannon. You still don't know how to do anything but attack and as soon as the enemy counters you are going to get blasted. If you spend three feats on defense you take Dodge, Toughness, and what, two weapon defense? It really still doesn't make for the 7 AC drop for being in leather.

Grand Lodge

How then do you factor in for a single level dip? A rogue goes level 1 fighter, picks up a buttload of feats then level 2 they get the armor prof allowed by the class... it is VERY easy to break the balance altogether.


Helaman wrote:
How then do you factor in for a single level dip? A rogue goes level 1 fighter, picks up a buttload of feats then level 2 they get the armor prof allowed by the class... it is VERY easy to break the balance altogether.

What is the rogue actually going to do with those feats that is a big problem?


The point is, a single level dip in fighter becomes pretty much required for any non full spellcaster. Getting 3-4 feats just for a level dip is well worth it.

And if an option becomes required, its not balanced.


Instead of a feat, you could allow fighters to choose between:

A.) Medium and Heavy Armor Proficiency.

B.) Canny Defense: When wearing light or no armor, a fighter adds 1 point of Intelligence bonus (if any) per fighter class level to his Dexterity bonus to modify Armor Class while wielding a melee weapon. If a fighter is caught flat-footed or otherwise denied his Dexterity bonus, he also loses this bonus.

I think it would work well enough.

Grand Lodge

cranewings wrote:

I've been letting players give up heavy armor for a feat for a long time. I'm thinking of expanding it to being able to give up Heavy, Medium and Light for a feat each if you would like.

Thoughts?

It works well.


I have an observation: Every class has a package of abilities that could be broken down into feats. There are many classes with redundant basic abilities that could be cashed in for extra feats. But the abilities were meant to be taken as a set. That is how the game was balanced. If you want to part out a class into feats then you should ban multi classed characters to prevent abuse. Otherwise what is stopping feat farming by switching between a couple combat classes? You could gain all that armor use back with a single level dip...


Pretty sweet.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I allow something like this: You can switch out only the highest armour feat. And you can't get it back by multiclassing. If you spend a feat for it, that's fine but all your classes now provide proficiency in one armour less.

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