The female response is "you should respect my feelings and be upset about this stuff!" .... which of course, doesn't respect the male perspective of "meh.. whatever"
(And I'm only responding to BNW's post because it allows me the easiest turnaround)
Is that really the female response, though?
Of the three ladies I linked above, one of them was always going through the porn DVDs where I worked and would only rent ones that featured squirting. Another one was bi and was capable of "objectifying" (i.e., wanting to have sex with) women in ways that startled me. Nevermind the stories she would tell me about the S&M clubs she frequented. (I guess, somewhere, there's a place where you can piss on a midget for ten bucks! Not my cup of tea, but, still...) The third I wasn't that close with and, while she was definitely more "lady"-like, she certainly wasn't in the least bit upset by superheroines in skimpy outfits.
I can understand women being put off by infantile man-children mouthbreathing and leering at them. But if there are women out there seriously upset by comic book characters and their (lack of) clothing, imho, they should put down the Dworkin and chill out.
I love your friends, dood!
Sadly, we haven't stayed in touch.
So, amusing story that's not totally on-topic, but, heck, I think it's funny.
So, IIRC, it was him, me, another UPS driver, his fiancee (who also worked at UPS) and our friend Weird Matt. We get there and it's overwhelmingly yuppies and lesbians. Not my crowd (the yuppies, not the lesbians), but, whatever, it's for charity--let's get drunk!
Meanwhile, across town, Matt's roommates Kendra and Max (his name was actually Matt, too, but that's confusing, so let's call him Max) were going on a romantic getaway vacation on the coast. Except that, poor Max wasn't feeling very amorous and kept putting off performing his manly duties to the extreme consternation of Kendra. She tries to jump his bones, but he declines and distracts her by proposing that they go on some kind of romantic walk through the garden. (?!?) She agrees, hoping that there will be some sexytime afterwards.
Back at the Middle East, we are now shiznit-faced. At some point, the promoters hand out bingo cards and we start playing for sex-toys. I beat Weird Matt by one number and he gets incredibly jealous. I won a pair of crotchless panties!
Cut to Lover's Nest. After the extreme exertions of the romantic walk, Kendra and Max return to the boudoir. Kendra's engine is running, but Max claims that he's too tired and he's going to bed. Kendra flips out (that girl had a temper!), grabs the car-keys, and drives back to Arlington, stranding poor Max.
Back at the Middle East, we're still drinking heavily and playing bingo. Weird Matt is one number away from winning again when someone else shouts "Bingo!" That person wins a dildo. Weird Matt is now rage incarnate, yelling "This is bullshiznit! I want a dildo!" I perceive a possibility to wreak mischief and egg him on. "Yeah, that is bullshiznit. That should have been your dildo! Go up there and demand what's yours." My life partner starts chiming in: "Yeah, that's your dildo, Matt, are you going to let them give away your dildo?"
Weird Matt decides that enough is enough. He storms up to the stage and starts incoherently yelling at the MC. "What?" she asks. He continues to talk gibberish. "He wants a dildo!" I yell. Our table starts chanting "Give him a dildo!" and pounding on the table.
Eventually, the MC invites Weird Matt on-stage where, with great ceremony, they give him a dildo. Weird Matt, with a beaming smile, turns to the audience and holds aloft his prize triumphantly. My l-p yells out "Teamsters Local 25!" and our table starts chanting "Union! Union! Union!"
So, that was fun. And we kept drinking. Eventually, however, it was time to go home.
Now, I wasn't there for this part, but Weird Matt gets back to his apartment and finds Kendra fuming in her bathrobe, eating chocolate, and watching some old Cary Grant movie on PBS.
"Uh, where's Max?" asks Weird Matt. "I don't want to talk about," she replies. "Uh, okay." "How was your night?" "It was fun. Look, I won a dildo!"
Kendra looks at the dildo, launches herself across the room, grabs it out of his hands, and runs upstairs. Weird Matt looks around the room, shrugs, and finishes watching North by Northwest.
The end.
Oh yeah, I forgot...
Goblins do it in the street!
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Have I mentioned how much I love your friends, dood?
Is that really the female response, though?
Only as much as the sexed up villianesses are the male one.
The most remarkable quality of my friends, of course, is their willingness to put up with me. It shows a great generosity of spirit, imho.
Yeah let me withdraw that comment as it really doesn't apply and complex is too broad a word to use. Maybe a better way to say it is women are much more likely to prefer casual games rather than invest significantly more time into a game turning it into more of a hobby. But even then there are exceptions.But for the majority of women, the idea of sitting down and playing a complex game is boring.[]
Your statement: "women are much more likely to prefer casual games rather than invest significantly more time into a game" applies to men as well. *We* (gamers) are the exception in the population of all men and women.
I'm not saying this just to pick on you... It's just the case your making seems confounded to me. Thanks for taking the time to respond maturely, though.
@Anklebiter: How have we not met? I haven't lived in Cambridge since '07 but still. You seem like you run with the same type crowds. I'll be in town in the spring, maybe a beer exchange is in order.
@Anklebiter: How have we not met? I haven't lived in Cambridge since '07 but still. You seem like you run with the same type crowds. I'll be in town in the spring, maybe a beer exchange is in order.
They say Boston's a small city, but there sure are a lot of people there! There's even a lot of left-wing, D&D dorks! Maybe we have met!
I lived in Eastie (say "EaBo" and I'll cut you!) from 1995-2009 (ish) and went to UMass Boston for a good portion of those years (more than 4 and I still never earned my degree!). I'd list the places I worked, but I have no intention of leaving a paper trail here on the interwebz.
Anyway, where do you live now? I live in NH and am always happy to have excuses to go down to Boston. When you're in town, lemme know!
I remember fondly when one highly opinionated lady wandered up and asked me what the frakk I was doing. I spun around on the bar-stool, looked her square in the eyes and said "I am enjoying a cold drink in a great bar. I can talk to some very attractive and spirited ladies without any of us feeling awkward or wondering when the bad pick-up line will be coming around, and if I decide to order somebody a drink, they know I'm doing it to be friendly. So here, have a [redacted] Cowboy on me, you look like you need it."
Bar-owner was face-planted on the counter, laughing hysterically, my friend was choking on her coke-and-rum and the other long-term members of the bar where all looking on with keen anticipation.
And let me tell you, taking a [redacted] Cowboy to the face stings, especially if you don't close your eyes in time. I miss that place, but Mick had to sell out after the local Defenders of Morality got all uppity and started to blockade the entrances on his busiest nights.
Honestly, I prefer characters and series where the Characters have flaws, both physical and mental. The fat guy with a romantic persuasion that is doomed to be lonely because none of the women in his life can see past his plus-sized navel, the 'flat' girl that frets about her 'lack' of womanly charms so much she almost misses the object of her affection trying to attract her attention, the hero who constantly feels he or she is not being 'all they can be', so on and so forth.
Sadly, Sex Sells, and it's g&#$@+n harder than a Succubi's nipples to find an Editor or Publisher that will produce your book, comic or other without some fap-material or eye-candy involved. Lost count of the times I tried to get some short-stories published as a younger writer only to kept on getting knocked back because the main characters 'lacked sex appeal'.
After asking if he wanted a PG-13 book or g%!-d#$ned Porn, I was shown the door and told to come back when I lived in the real world.
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I have no problem with sex selling. I have enough adult material of all kinds to choke a Clydesdale stallion. I do have a problem with people using the fact that sex sells to keep someone who isn't selling it down in some way.. Self publish, half orc. You and the world will be richer for it.
I disagree with much of the above, but I feel an excellent point was made with romance novels and small gaming companies. It takes no small amount of time and talent to see a profit to say nothing of the intermittent heartbreaks, but it pays to be the change you wish to see in the world.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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I think there's a deeper problem with the "privilege" line of argument itself. It incriminates a whole class of people and specifically rules out any exceptions other than people who also propagate the privilege argument. It's something like this, where X can be white, or male, or majority religion, or whatever, and Y is whatever the perceived outgroup is:
If you are X, you oppress/are prejudiced against Y
If you think you are NOT prejudiced against Y, it's because you have X privilege--you oppress/are prejudiced but just don't know it
If you make any counterargument or discussion of any kind, it proves that you oppress/are prejudiced against Y
You have no recourse except eternal guilt for being X; you must immediately accept and propagate the X privilege argument; you can't even ignore it and go your own way because that's just another way of oppressing/being prejudiced against Y
Full disclosure: I am "The Man." I'm a straight white male Protestant capitalist member of the military-industrial complex. I consider racism, sexism, religious intolerance, etc. social evils and I try, by healthy dialogue, self-examination, and plain good manners, to avoid engaging in any of those things myself. So the whole privilege argument irks me particularly because it tells me I have to be evil, I can't help myself, all I can do is live in perpetual guilt and shame because I was born a straight white male.
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It also pays not to answer one stereotype with another; right now Downton Abbey is about halfway through its american broadcast, and I'm more emotionally invested in it than I am in any porn. Is Downton Abbey a men's romance? I don't know, but I'll bet according to Chimp it's for girls.
I don't see why a video game (or whatever) which appeals to men can't appeal to women, but the designers are going to have to do more than put in more dancing tit-monkeys to split that difference.
"Tough. You aren't welcome here. Get out. Stay out." Is a poor response to any segment of the population who expresses an interest in your hobby.
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Full disclosure: I am "The Man." I'm a straight white male Protestant capitalist member of the military-industrial complex. I consider racism, sexism, religious intolerance, etc. social evils and I try, by healthy dialogue, self-examination, and plain good manners, to avoid engaging in any of those things myself. So the whole privilege argument irks me particularly because it tells me I have to be evil, I can't help myself, all I can do is live in perpetual guilt and shame because I was born a straight white male.
I'm the Man too; your one sentence description fits me as well as it does you, if a bit generally. I don't think talking about male privilege means either of us are irredeemably evil; I do think that if you take a good look at the world (well, culture) around us, the gender-bias is impossible to deny. When someone points out that bias in a blog, or just conversation, "Good, I never liked reading the same books as girls anyway," is a useless answer.
I'm not saying you've done that, but I don't see how a little consideration can hurt the situation. Of course, given my first post in the thread, I think internet RPG message boards are a pretty ineffectual way to effect any lasting social change, but as long as it's here I'll blather on and on (and on).
I also think it's interesting (and, once again, no reflection on you personally) that the segment of the population accused of privilege usually responds with something akin to, "I don't know what the problem is, the view's awesome from up here."
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...{thoughts on privilege}...
It's an argument that can be (and usually is, unfortunately) taken too far. But that doesn't mean it's completely useless.
I grew up in Detroit. Most of my best friends in elementary school were black. I fully understood that every person is a different person, and the color of their skin had nothing to do with the essence of who they are - because I'd experienced that fully from a very young age. But as we got older, some of my friends got resentful. And then I would resent them for the chip on their shoulder, when I had never done anything to indicate I agreed with racist jerks who mistreated them or assumed things about them.
Then I lived in Japan for two years. Let me tell you, Americans have their problems with racism and stereotypes, but we've got nothing on Japanese culture. The constant assumptions, the cutlural stresses, the stereotypes and abuse made me, for lack of a better word, paranoid. Most people treated me well, with the occasional misstep you will always have in socialization between two fallible beings from vastly different cultural backgrounds. But the constant attacks, putdowns, and petty cruelties and even abuse from the minority that were racist a$$hats made me begin to assume every misstep, even the innocent ones and everyday mistakes, were indications of a racist attitude toward me. I do not like the person I became under that sort of pressure. But it gave me a valuable lesson in how my childhood friends began to change as they ran into more and more crap from jerks as they got older.
For me, the privilege argument is valuable in that it's useful for open-minded people to use it to try to examine themselves occasionally. You can't wallow in constant guilt - that breeds its own resentments and issues - and if the person the argument is being presented to is unwilling to engage in some self examination at that very moment, for whatever reason, it's really not going to accomplish anything. But I think it's a useful tool if not overused and not used incorrectly.
This sounds like my wife and I trying to pick out a Netflick to watch.
Her: "How about Sisterhood of Men are Pigs and Romance is Everywhere? -- it's got Matthew McConnehey and Hugh Grant for me, and Julia Roberts for you to look at!"
Me: "I'm scared of Julia Roberts. Her mouth is so big it looks like she could swallow me whole. How about The Killer Elite? You think Jason Statham is hot..."
Her: "Why does it always have to be something that YOU want to watch?!"
Me: "I'd prefer something we BOTH could watch. How about this comedy with Tim Robbins? We both like him, and it's not a chick movie nor an action flick."
Her: "Men are Pigs says it's a 'romantic comedy,' so it's a comedy! So it is something we both should like!"
Me: (Does crossword puzzles while she watches her dumb movie).
Kirth, my objection to that has nothing to with the obvious gender bias, but why are you working on a crossword instead of Kirthfinder? That's just wrong, and I worry about the societal ramifications...
As usual, thanks you jess door, for your insights. I still wonder how my life would have been different if I did JET.
why are you working on a crossword instead of Kirthfinder?
Because if I go into the other room to that, then I'm in trouble for skipping movie night. Besides, it's hard to reach the popcorn from there.
My suggested change
Help! I'm completely freaking blind. I've looked at both covers like 6 times and can't see the difference.
EDIT: Oh, wait, you've reduced her by half a cup size and tucked her in a bit. Yeah, the new cover does look better, come to think of it.|
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My suggested changeHelp! I'm completely freaking blind. I've looked at both covers like 6 times and can't see the difference.
Oh good, it's not just me. I think in the edited version there is more cloth covering the cleavage so it doesn't pop out when she bends over. Basically the boobhole inthe original is covered in the edit, I think. But that is informed by reading the original post in Jess Stone's third link.
But that is informed by reading the original post in Jess Stone's third link.
Sadly, work won't let me read that!
Here's on specific example of something in gaming that pissed me off, and a proposed change I suggested that wouldn't interfere with the product (hoepfully!), but would have avoided being something that I hated:
D&D 4th Edition Player Handbook Cover Art:
Can I get a clarification? Are you saying you are not against sexy pictures and cheesecake, you just don't like it when it goes to far, or are you against sexy images and cheesecake altogether?
Y'know what's funny Jess, as I remember there was a letter from a guy in a later issue of Dragon (don't have the wherewithal to dig it out and check the number, sorry) saying that he couldn't buy the issue with the greco-roman beefcake on the cover because people would think he was gay. The male readership rallied in defense of Dragon, but no one pointed out that you had a simillar female depiction on the cover 3-6 times a year.
Can I ask what your opinion of the Pathfinder art is? It might not be the greatest progress, but I do remember seeing Seelah for the first time and thinking, "Hey, no cleavage window." (yes, Seoni took 2 steps back imo)
Y'know what's funny Jess, as I remember there was a letter from a guy in a later issue of Dragon (don't have the wherewithal to dig it out and check the number, sorry) saying that he couldn't buy the issue with the greco-roman beefcake on the cover because people would think he was gay. The male readership rallied in defense of Dragon, but no one pointed out that you had a simillar female depiction on the cover 3-6 times a year.
Can I ask what your opinion of the Pathfinder art is? It might not be the greatest progress, but I do remember seeing Seelah for the first time and thinking, "Hey, no cleavage window." (yes, Seoni took 2 steps back imo)
I'm a woman, and I quite like Seoni's art.
Meh. I dislike all the art. I don't like the slinky sorceress chick with her boobs flying everywhere, and I don't like the elfs with bug eyes and bunny ears, and I don't like how all the gnomes and halflings got all scrawny-looking and underfed, and I don't like how all swords, hammers, and axes are at least 8 feet long and look to weigh about 4,000 pounds.
Hmm. I quite love the art, especially the women.
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Can I get a clarification? Are you saying you are not against sexy pictures and cheesecake, you just don't like it when it goes to far, or are you against sexy images and cheesecake altogether?
In the third link you can see the conversation back when it happened. And those of us that complained about the cover got a lot of "You just want all women in art to be ugly like you!" type comments. Others said "Really? That one scrap of cloth made the difference? Why are you so sensitive?"
To sum up various responses (including mine) to these types of things, the essence is:
As a woman, I actually have breasts. I deal with the real life ramifications of them on a daily basis. Therefore, when I see a woman spelunking with that top on, my first thought is "That is the stupidest thing I've ever seen." I have this thought, mainly, because I know how uncomfortable and precarious that would be in real life.
Sexy art doesn't bother me. I sometimes get annoyed when every female that's not a bad guy is twenty something with a slender model's body and lots of cleavage, but I can deal. In fact, when I draw characters I tend to do the same myself. But when the adventurer is dressed so impractically for adventuring, I just have no choice but to assume she's an idiot, or shooting adventure themed porn.
I think the point is that my edit, while it didn't make the art something I liked, at least removed the final straw that took me from not caring for the art to actively disliking it. If that can be done without removing the "she's a sexy chick for me to look at!" element for cheesecake fans, I think everybody wins.
In the edit, I used the clone brush to grab the colors of the top, and just extend them in such a way that it looked like the cloth came up in a halter top. There was no reduction in size, the girls are just better restrained to avoid wardrobe malfunctions...and enhance comfort while adventure spelunking.
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But it is an entirely appropriate response to a segment of the population that expresses an interest in your hobby in such a way that your hobby has to be completely changed into something unrecognizable to accommodate them.
Okay, but if dressing your female characters in anything but hooker clothes changes a video game into something unrecognizable, that thar is male privilege, thus my earlier quote of Louis Armstrong.
But when the adventurer is dressed so impractically for adventuring, I just have no choice but to assume she's an idiot, or shooting adventure themed porn.
Nice one! And at the cost of possibly being labeled as an enemy sympathizer or something, I agree 100%.
Can I get a clarification? Are you saying you are not against sexy pictures and cheesecake, you just don't like it when it goes to far, or are you against sexy images and cheesecake altogether?In the third link you can see the conversation back when it happened. And those of us that complained about the cover got a lot of "You just want all women in art to be ugly like you!" type comments. Others said "Really? That one scrap of cloth made the difference? Why are you so sensitive?"
To sum up various responses (including mine) to these types of things, the essence is:
As a woman, I actually have breasts. I deal with the real life ramifications of them on a daily basis. Therefore, when I see a woman spelunking with that top on, my first thought is "That is the stupidest thing I've ever seen." I have this thought, mainly, because I know how uncomfortable and precarious that would be in real life.
Sexy art doesn't bother me. I sometimes get annoyed when every female that's not a bad guy is twenty something with a slender model's body and lots of cleavage, but I can deal. In fact, when I draw characters I tend to do the same myself. But when the adventurer is dressed so impractically for adventuring, I just have no choice but to assume she's an idiot, or shooting adventure themed porn.
I think the point is that my edit, while it didn't make the art something I liked, at least removed the final straw that took me from not caring for the art to actively disliking it. If that can be done without removing the "she's a sexy chick for me to look at!" element for cheesecake fans, I think everybody wins.
In the edit, I used the clone brush to grab the colors of the top, and just extend them in such a way that it looked like the cloth came up in a halter top. There was no reduction in size, the girls are just better restrained to avoid wardrobe malfunctions...and enhance comfort while adventure spelunking.
Okay. I'm a cheesecake fan, but I can respect this position. Being a transgendered woman, I have no experience with the breast issue, so I just look at the pictures and say that they look cool and I like them.
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It also pays not to answer one stereotype with another; right now Downton Abbey is about halfway through its american broadcast, and I'm more emotionally invested in it than I am in any porn. Is Downton Abbey a men's romance? I don't know, but I'll bet according to Chimp it's for girls.
I confess I also love Downtown Abbey. Mrs. Bell says it's a show about "people drinking tea and trying to arrange marriages." Netflix, please hurry up and put Season 2 on instant play.
I also like show tunes (somebody talked about this upthread). At the risk of reinforcing a stereotype, I think I may be the only one of my male acquaintances that likes show tunes that isn't gay.
For me, the privilege argument is valuable in that it's useful for open-minded people to use it to try to examine themselves occasionally. You can't wallow in constant guilt - that breeds its own resentments and issues - and if the person the argument is being presented to is unwilling to engage in some self examination at that very moment, for whatever reason, it's really not going to accomplish anything. But I think it's a useful tool if not overused and not used incorrectly.
See, I can buy that. Self-examination is important for anyone trying to live the ethical life, and that includes self-examination on how we feel about those different from ourselves and how that changes the way we treat them. It can be incredibly difficult to honestly assess ourselves about that. It just really makes me angry when somebody throws the privilege argument in my face or uses it like a blunt instrument, making these sweeping generalizations like that article in the OP. That's just reverse racism or sexism, thinly-disguised. It makes me want to say, "we're different, I get it, sometimes people are jerks to you because we're different but you being a jerk to me because we're different doesn't change or solve that."
I think that a lot of what is perceived as privilege would be solved by professionalism in the workplace, capitalism in the marketplace (it's a bad idea to alienate potential customers), and common decency and respect in general interaction.
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Y'know what's funny Jess, as I remember there was a letter from a guy in a later issue of Dragon (don't have the wherewithal to dig it out and check the number, sorry) saying that he couldn't buy the issue with the greco-roman beefcake on the cover because people would think he was gay. The male readership rallied in defense of Dragon, but no one pointed out that you had a simillar female depiction on the cover 3-6 times a year.
Actually, that very cover was brought up in the argument I linked to. :)
Can I ask what your opinion of the Pathfinder art is? It might not be the greatest progress, but I do remember seeing Seelah for the first time and thinking, "Hey, no cleavage window." (yes, Seoni took 2 steps back imo)
Seoni is annoying because she was the first major iconic image to get thrown around for Pathfinder, and the outfit and look doesn't fit her character sheet.
sure, sure, sorceress = high charima = super hot chick that can't wear armor so we can put her in sexy clothing!!! But Seoni has high intelligence (for a sorceror), and is serious and quiet. The outfit doesn't fit her character at all...she's not even underhanded and manipulative enough to use it purely to manipulate and control men. What's the point of dressing like that.
At least the oracle has the excuse she's nearly blind. :D
Paizo's always invested in lots of art, and works hard to keep the quality up. And Seelah and the inquisitor are awesome. Seoni and the witch and the oracle are a bit over the top sometimes, but like I said, I can usually deal. Seoni bothers me the most because she's quite well endowed and has no visible means of support. Bouncing around adventuring would be very painful like that.
::winces::
Somebody give that woman a good underwire!!!
At the risk of reinforcing a stereotype, I think I may be the only one of my male acquaintances that likes show tunes that isn't gay.
Well man, it depends on the show, but there are at least two of us :)
And Charlie, if you can get the unedited british version of Downton, watch it. It's just like the PBS edit, but even more so!
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At the risk of reinforcing a stereotype, I think I may be the only one of my male acquaintances that likes show tunes that isn't gay.Well man, it depends on the show, but there are at least two of us :)
Do Moulin Rouge, Repo: The Genetic Opera, and Rocky Horror Pictureshow count as show tunes? If so, I like some of them.
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Seoni is annoying because she was the first major iconic image to get thrown around for Pathfinder, and the outfit and look doesn't fit her character sheet.
sure, sure, sorceress = high charima = super hot chick that can't wear armor so we can put her sex clothing!!! But Seoni has high intelligence (for a sorceror), and is serious and quiet. The outfit doesn't fit her character at all...she's not even underhanded and manipulative enough to use it purely to manipulate and control men. What's the point of dressing like that.
At least the oracle has the excuse she's nearly blind. :D
Paizo's always invested in lots of art, and works hard to keep the quality up. And Seelah and the inquisitor are awesome. Seoni and the witch and the oracle are a bit over the top sometimes, but like I said, I can usually deal. Seoni bothers me the most because she's quite well endowed and has no visible means of support. Bouncing around adventuring would be very painful like that.
::winces::
Somebody give that woman a good underwire!!!
Actually, as an anthropologist, a feminist, and a member of the Paizo art staff, I'm happy you brought up some of these issues. They've been on my mind a lot lately, as well.
Seoni dresses provactively. There's no denying that. Part of that is the same reason you mentioned: Sorcerer = high charisma, and the easiest way to convey that in a single illustration is making someone attractive and confidant. That being said, being confidant and attractive doesn't mean also being stupid, and being intelligent (as Seoni is) doesn't mean being an introvert or not caring about appearances. In-game, Seoni was raised in a very visceral culture that encourages music and dance and physical fitness. Out-of-game, her outfit was design primarily to show off the Varisian tattoos.
While Seoni's look was designed by a guy (The incomparable Wayne Reynolds), everything is created with input and feedback from our female art director, and even me on rare occasion (I'm quite proud of getting to add some input into Reiko and Lirianne's designs).
In the end, what Seoni wears is revealing, but her design was released alongside Meresiel and Kyra, a woman who is fully clothed but tight, and a woman who is bundled up like there was a fire sale at the scarf-and-chainmail-emporium. All three are awesome examples of womanhood in their own ways. Since then, Paizo's female iconic have run the gamut from badass warriors who won't take your s!!$ (Seelah and Imrijka), to tough-and-hot adventurer chicks (like Lirrianne or Amiri), to eye-candy (Alhazra), to... other (Lini). Seoni's outfit on her own fits stereotypes of what women have been told they should be, but all our female iconics, taken as a group, provide an awesome cross-section of what it actually does mean to be a woman. To leave out women who like to look and feel hot would've bordered on slut-shaming.
As to the lack of support... yeah, that makes me wince, too. Thankfully, most of our other women are less endowed and better supported. Prestidigitation, perhaps?
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The article basically says "My girlfriend feels threatened and objectified by certain aspects of geek culture, and gets actively confronted by folks who want to defend those aspects. Here is what the dudes confronting her don't quite understand."
Try to recognize the actual message of the article without getting defensive. It's not about censorship, it's about understanding what it is like to be someone not-you.
By removing it from the context of the article explaining someone's viewpoint and characterizing it as some kind generic quest to sanitize and equalize all media, dudes really telegraph themselves as belonging to the male-entitlement crowd. It shows that you don't often think about anyone's experience beyond your own.
Well, boo hoo. How I am not supposed to get defensive when you accuse me of "belonging to the male-entitlement crowd?"
Okay, so the author's girlfriend feels threatened and objectified by aspects of (a narrow subset of) geek culture. So? What kind of response do you want from me? Am I supposed to feel sorry for her? Am I supposed to feel guilty?
Why should I care? Seriously, why should I give a rat's ass what some random dude on the internet's girlfriend feels about video games that are marketed to teen boys?
I'm not telling you what to think. I'm telling you what you sound like to me, when you read that article and then respond to it in the manner that you did. It's pretty obvious that you don't care, and it's not my place to change you.
In the previous post, I wasn't referring to you specifically, Chimpanzee Psychonaut, but I will speak directly to your comments if you like.