I am running an epic level game and updating/converting a 30th level adventure from
Dungeon magazine # 123 ... Want to use a solar with class levels as a PC.
Solars are CR 23, but how many class levels can I add to make one roughly 30-31st level?! I don't think it's as simple as adding 7-8 to the CR, hence my post with the above question.
Thanks for any help.
8-9 class levels. The first class level doesn't seem to be important enough all things told. Their racial mods are as follows +18 str +10 dex +20 con +13 int +17 wis and +15 cha, according to Hero Lab. Remember all monsters use a standard array (basically 15 point buy) for their stats, but you are a PC, so it's likely to be better.
It'd depend IMO on what class as well. Give you cleric levels, you have the solar frame with full spellcasting of a cleric. Give you some wizard levels, different story.
It'd depend IMO on what class as well. Give you cleric levels, you have the solar frame with full spellcasting of a cleric. Give you some wizard levels, different story.
They already have access to 9th level spells, he'd be better off going a different route, like gunslinger or inquisitor. Gunslinger AND inquisitor would be awesome.
Transfer his "arrow of death" ability to a "shotgun of death to your face" and I would totally be all over that. Especially if that shotgun shot: Miracle.
Transfer his "arrow of death" ability to a "shotgun of death to your face" and I would totally be all over that. Especially if that shotgun shot: Miracle.
Get revolvers and make them use the Guided modifier from Curse of the Crimson Throne. Then you'd get your wisdom to your damage. Take pistolero and Mysterious stranger, you get your dex and cha to damage. Then make them distance and murder everything you don't like. Honestly, if you had more levels, or just took a lower angel type, I'd say go ninja, so you can add sneak attack dice, since you aren't worried about hitting.
The planetar is only a CR17 and is comparable in basically every stat except con.
Okay, so I was playing around with it a little, and the hp/ac that comes with a solar is totally worth the lack of class features here. You still have spellcasting of a ridiculously high level cleric and your stats make your guns ridiculous.
A level of advanced creature is merited here. Call yourself Pale Rider, you'll have to spend most of your time shrunk down though.
Transfer his "arrow of death" ability to a "shotgun of death to your face" and I would totally be all over that. Especially if that shotgun shot: Miracle.
Wait... I've seen that movie. Micheal Jackson and his creepy skeleton buzzard die at the end right?
A belated thanks guys ... I thought there needs to be an addition to a character's CR ON TOP of any character levels.
For example, a Solar is CR 23 but more powerful if used as a character than a regular 23rd level person. Or a Planetar at CR 16, if used as a character, is stronger than an average 16th level character.
So if I want to make a "30th" level Solar character ... I thought I couldn't just add 7 character levels. Thought I had to add a second variable based on their power. So if that variable was 5, then I'd only be able to add 2 character levels to said Solar.
I've looked at the old monster manuals and fiend folio (3rd edition), and that didn't clear things up.
Thanks for any further clarification.
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I'd say maybe 3 additional levels to bring up to par with PC level 30. They have so many at will SLAs that you could reasonably sub them for a 30th level PC without any changes at all. Action economy means they'll rarely eclipse a 30th-level PC in combat, but in between fights, the solar can overcome basically any difficulty.
A belated thanks guys ... I thought there needs to be an addition to a character's CR ON TOP of any character levels.For example, a Solar is CR 23 but more powerful if used as a character than a regular 23rd level person. Or a Planetar at CR 16, if used as a character, is stronger than an average 16th level character.
So if I want to make a "30th" level Solar character ... I thought I couldn't just add 7 character levels. Thought I had to add a second variable based on their power. So if that variable was 5, then I'd only be able to add 2 character levels to said Solar.
I've looked at the old monster manuals and fiend folio (3rd edition), and that didn't clear things up.
Thanks for any further clarification.
You're remembering 3rd edition, which had a Level Adjustment to add to a monster's hit dice before making it a PC. PFRPG did away with those, mostly.
If you're wanting it for a 3rd edition game, the only place an ECL for a Solar was listed was in Dragon #293, which was a precursor to the Savage Species book and was intended for the 3.0 versions of the monsters, which estimated it at ECL 36.
Some of the estimates from that issue of Dragon were way too high, though, and many got adjusted down quite a bit by the time they saw print in Savage Species, and adjusted further by the time the ECLs showed up in the 3.5 monster manual. All of the estimates for ECL's higher than 20 were never used in either newer book, though.
The new rule of thumb for PF for a monster that doesn't specifically have a version for PC's is to basically use the monster's CR as a starting character level, keeping all other stats as is. (ie. no rolling/point-buy for stats then adding bonuses like in 3e. A monster's stats in the bestiary are the stats they start with, period.)
The powers a Solar gets when taken individually are not unrealistic for a 23rd level character, but I don't believe it would be possible (or at least not easy) to build a regular character that gets the combination of all those powers from some strange build of classes. I am fairly certain that there are people who could build an optimized character of 23rd level that would be more powerful than a Solar, however I am not one of them.