Style feats and manufactured weapons


Rules Questions


Not sure if this is possible, but when taking style feats, like dragon style, do they apply when fighting with manufactured weapons as well or only while unarmed? The feat prerequisites have improved unarmed strikes which makes me think it's unarmed only but I don't see why the footwork wouldn't apply with a weapon as well.


Look at the specifics of each one -- for example crane style only requires a free hand, and can be used with a weapon.


The feats require Improved Unarmed Strike to take them, but you can freely use them with weapons, too. Of course, Dragon Style, the one you mentioned specifically, does actually require you use an Unarmed Strike to get the 1.5x Strength damage bonus.


Boar style -- requires unarmed strikes, the intimidation portion doesn't state this though.
Djinni style -- no requirements on unarmed strikes.
Dragon style -- the charging and save bonuses do not require unarmed strikes, the damage bonus does. The cone attack of course doesn't require empty hands.
Mantis style -- the last feat has something that only functions with an unarmed strike.
Panther Style -- the retaliatory attack is an unarmed strike specifically.

etc.


So if I'm wielding a spear or lance and using dragon style I still benefit from all the charge stuff? Still meddling with my ff style dragoon build and this style came to mind.

Obviously I'll check with my GM as well.


Khrysaor wrote:

So if I'm wielding a spear or lance and using dragon style I still benefit from all the charge stuff? Still meddling with my ff style dragoon build and this style came to mind.

Obviously I'll check with my GM as well.

Yeah, you can still use the charging stuff with a spear. But, uh, isn't the Dragoon about jumping? Just jump over the difficult terrain and allies and whatnot during your charge.


I didn't think you could jump as part of a charge. Figured this way I could fluff it since the terrain stops a charge.


Khrysaor wrote:
I didn't think you could jump as part of a charge. Figured this way I could fluff it since the terrain stops a charge.

I see no reason you couldn't. I know for a fact you could jump during a charge in 3.5, and I have not yet noticed any change in Pathfinder that would prevent it.

Acrobatics is listed as not requiring an action, that it's just used during another action, and nothing about Charging stops a jump.

During the charge "nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles)." If you jump over those things, nothing is hindering you, so I'm quite sure you can.


Hmmm. Maybe it's just been a house rule of ours that you cannot jump as part of a charge. I think it was cause you can jump as a normal move to avoid difficult terrain but charging states there can't be anything to obstruct your movement.

More questions for my GM in this upcoming campaign.

Grand Lodge

If being unable to jump at all within a charge is really RAW, well my opinion is that is stupid. Charging involves movement, making an acrobatics check (to jump) is made as part of movement. Sorry, end rant.


I found this line:

"If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge. Helpless creatures don't stop a charge."

Here's the thing, though. That line is in the 3.5 SRD, and I know you could jump during a charge in 3.5 because there was a feat that made jumping during a charge better.

So, I'm pretty sure you need to read that line knowing that a square doesn't block or slow your movement if you jump over it.

Grand Lodge

I say, if ordinary me can do it, my fantasy hero should damn well be able to do it. Just saying.


The thing is if you have a blocked square you can't even charge to begin with so you can't even attempt to jump it.

You can jump during a charge just fine however you may not jump during a charge to avoid illegal squares.

Grand Lodge

What about a small gap, like say, a foot wide ditch? No charge?


Thats easily step overable and probably not stopping a charge your average stride is bigger than the gap.

Grand Lodge

What about a foot tall ledge? No charge? Can you charge if difficult terrain is created during your charge, say as someone preparing an action to create it? Would you not be to jump over it then?


I say once its legal you can go for it no problem i cant back it up with raw though thats how i do it.

Of course I would allow a player to use a skill to avoid some terrain any way as a GM i like the thought of the guy leaping over the wall to come crashing down on some guys head.


Talonhawke wrote:

The thing is if you have a blocked square you can't even charge to begin with so you can't even attempt to jump it.

You can jump during a charge just fine however you may not jump during a charge to avoid illegal squares.

See, that's where I disagree. That terrain doesn't necessarily block jumping movement, so you can charge if you jump.

Otherwise, you're looking at charges being incomprehensibly difficult to make, since terrain that blocks or hinders any movement would stop the charge.

I mean, a room in a dungeon blocks swimming, so you can't charge there. Open plains blocks Climb speeds, so you can't charge there. Even if you don't want to get that silly, someone with a Freedom of Movement spell on still couldn't charge through difficult terrain, even though they are not slowed by it.

You have to consider that line in the charge rules to be referring to blocking or hindering the sort of movement you're making, rather than any movement, or else the charge rules fall apart completely.

I'm pretty confident you can jump while charging, and can therefore charge through terrain that would block or hinder walking, as long as that terrain wouldn't block or hinder jumping.


I just read a 94 post thread from August on this argument. Let's not start another. Seems to be GM discretion but the rules are looking like no you can't. Yes you can jump as part of a charge IF you meet the pre reqs to start the charge first. Straight line between you and your intended opponent with no obstructions that would block or slow your movement. Jumping is part of a movement action but if the action cannot be initiated first you don't have a way to use the jump check. Seems silly but it could be a balance issue. Looking for a FAQ now.

EDIT: since one action, acrobatics, is dependent on another action, charging, you must first qualify for the charge to be able to use the jump and cannot use the jump to rule that you qualify for the charge.

Still looking for a FAQ.


RAW and RAI its not totally clear but if the movement you would use is blocked you can't start therefore you can't jump.

The line you quoted says it all though i agree it makes little to no sense sometimes.

However like i said i allow it because i am a firm believer of the rule of cool.

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