Dr. Moreau?

[RusanCrosha]

I think I may have stumbled onto an interesting villain concept, but I want other peoples opinions on whether or not it works mechanically. Hoping someone here will double-check my math, so to speak.

Alchemist (Vivisectionist archetype), at a sufficiently high enough level to have access to the anthropomorphic animal and awaken extracts. The former allows him to take an animal and turn it into a human/animal hybrid with Int 3 and capable of speaking one language. The former allows him to further enhance the mental facilities of an animal with a 3d6 Int.

However, since awaken technically turns an animal into an augmented magical beast, does that mean an animal would first have to be turned into a (permanent) anthropomorphic animal in order to also receive the benefits of awaken?

Also, assuming everything checks out and he is indeed able to create an intelligent human/animal hybrid abomination, how about adding class levels?

[spalding]

You need the combined extract discovery that would apply both extracts simultaneously which (in my view) would allow them to both start when the creature is an animal allowing your intelligent anthropomorphic creatures to be formed with the permanent version of the spells.

Please note this is expensive and can still be dispelled.

[RusanCrosha]

Hadn't considered the fact that it's still able to be dispelled, so thanks for the tip there. And I'm not too horribly concerned with the cost since I'd only be using this idea as a villain's plot device. Planning to disguise the experiment with the actions of a mass murderer (in the employ of the alchemist, so as to attain the thumb bones needed for anthropomorphic animal) and once the experiment is further underway, rumors of lycanthropy running rampant in the community.

[spalding]

Yeah dispelling is a problem for individual creatures -- I doubt the player's will have enough to get all of his creations done at the same time.

Don't forget to look at some of the big species too for more fun.

[RusanCrosha]

Oh yes, I had planned on it. :D Intelligent hybrid dire animals for the win. Thanks for the input. Any ideas as far as such abominations having class levels of any sort?

[spalding]

I would allow it -- in fact some might study magic realizing their weakness and hoping to prevent it from coming to pass.

This also offers an interesting twist to how the player's handle the creatures:

Would it be wrong to take away what has now been given to them when they want to keep it, or are they simply abominations that should be returned to their "proper place"?

Even more drama if one of the creatures is an oxen that will be eaten at a feast at the end of the month if returned to his original form.

[RusanCrosha]

Awesomesauce. Thanks for the ideas. :D

On a similar train of thought involving a different character idea, is there any reason why an Alchemist wouldn't be able to take the Craft Golem feat?

[spalding]

He *technically* lacks a caster level -- though in some thread or another the some of developers have already said to ignore that and treat him as if he had one for the purposes for crafting magical items.

[RusanCrosha]

Fair enough. I knew it was a long shot, but I was curious. It makes sense, thematically, that an Alchemist wouldn't be able to take any item creation feats other than brew potion.

[blackbloodtroll]

As a DM, you can fudge the rules as you wish. Use the rules for the anthropomorphic spell as a template, rather than a spell.

[Dragonchess Player]

Re: Craft Construct

It's feat intensive, but an alchemist can qualify by taking the Master Craftsman, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and Craft Wondrous Item feats. Note that there are a few wondrous items that can be crafted as armor (gauntlet of rust, helms) or weapons (feather token (whip), mattock of the titans, maul of the titans).

It's not RAW, but you could also allow alchemists with Craft Wondrous Items to make dusts, elixirs, restorative ointment, salve of slipperiness, silversheen, sovereign glue, stone salve, unguent of timelessness, and universal solvent without requiring Master Craftsman (Craft (Alchemy)) to qualify for the Craft Wondrous Item feat.

[Alch]

I agree that as a GM you don't have to follow the rules too closely. It all depends on your GMing style.

However, if you want to follow the rules or a player wanted to do this, I would say that 'Anthropomorphic Animal' and 'Awaken' are relatively independent of one another. You could also cast 'Awaken' first and then 'Anthropomorphic Animal'. The only difference is that the resulting creature would have a lower Int score (depending on the animal, 1 or 2 points lower). Note that although the 'Awaken' spell changes its type to 'Magical Beast', it still counts as an animal because of the 'Advanced Animal' subtype and thus can be the target of 'Anthropomorphic Animal'.

This also ties in to what happens if an animal, that has both 'Anthropomorphic Animal' and 'Awaken' applied to it, gets targeted by a dispel. Since only the effects of 'Anthropomorphic Animal' (both permanent or not) can be dispelled, the animal still has the effects of 'Awaken'.
The only difference is that, if 'Anthropomorphic Animal' was cast first and made permanent, its Int score is slightly lower (depending on what Int score the base animal had). Also, if 'Anthropomorphic Animal' were to be reapplied to the animal it wouldn't increase its Int score (as above, when 'Awaken' is applied first).