| Yora |
I'd like some clarification if this really works:
You can't create potions, spell-completion, or spell-trigger items if you don't know the spell the item will produce.
You can create items with spell prerequisites without knowing the spell by raising the crafting DC by 5, if the item is not a potion, spell-completion, or spell-triger item.
This later would include a custom command-word item that will produce spell effects. Yes?
So I have the situation of having a setting with only spontaneous casters and lots of spells that are so situational that no sane caster would ever pick them as spells known. However, they would still be useful as scrolls or wands. So is there anything stopping sorcerers from crafting such command-word items to use them to create wands for obscure spells?
I've done some calculations and for a third level spell that would increase the crafting time and creation cost by about 50%, if you squeeze all the charges of the command word items into making 4 wands. (Technically missing 2 charges, but yeah...)
If I really need that one scroll of Secret Page, I am willing to pay 780 gp instead of just 450 gp.
If this works. But given that spell-producing items would not count as meeting prerequisites would mean providing such items does not actually have any effect, even though they are mentioned as substitures, I don't see why not.
Though this little workaround is probably too complicated and expensive to be of any use in games in which prepared casters exist.
ZomB
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A single use, use-activated item could be priced as a potion with a base price of 50 = spell level * caster level * 50. Though as you point out that gets around the crafting and targeting limitations of potions. So you really want the crafting cost for Feather tokens, but that doesn't seem to be available. I would just double the potion cost and have say a dust of secret page. Maybe you restrict its use to a single class to get yourself a 30% discount or base cost of 70GPxCLxSL?
A command word wand substitute would use a base price of 900 rather than 750 = spell level * caster level * 1800 / 2 (50 charges)
ZomB
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Note also the spell pre-requisites can be fulfilled by an item. You could create a scroll or wand if you had an item that can cast it such as another wand or a once-per-day item.
So assuming you had a command word "wand" or once per day item you could make a scroll for an additional cost of one "wand" charge per day of crafting. Where a charge costs 18gp*cl*sl.
| Sangalor |
Note also the spell pre-requisites can be fulfilled by an item. You could create a scroll or wand if you had an item that can cast it such as another wand or a once-per-day item.
So assuming you had a command word "wand" or once per day item you could make a scroll for an additional cost of one "wand" charge per day of crafting. Where a charge costs 18gp*cl*sl.
Actually I think this is not correct for scrolls. From the CRB:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion items without meeting its prerequisites.
Scrolls are spell-completion items, so you must meet all prerequisites for them. The part about accessing it through other spellcasters or items refer to things like armor, wondrous items or wepons in my opinion.
But opinions may differ here, it depends what you consider to be the overriding rule - the latter or the former :-)
| Yora |
"The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet."
If "access through another magic item or spellcaster" counts as not meeting a prerequsite, you would have the increase the DC by 5. Which means having an item or another spellcaster would not have any effect at all.
Therefore, it must count as meeting prerequistes. And you only can't create provide potions, scrolls, and wands if the prerequisites are not met.
If it does not work, the wording would have to be "In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion items without meeting its prerequisites, and you can't access prerequsiste spells through another magic item or spellcaster to create them."
But it doesn't say that.
| Sangalor |
"The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet."
If "access through another magic item or spellcaster" counts as not meeting a prerequsite, you would have the increase the DC by 5. Which means having an item or another spellcaster would not have any effect at all.
Therefore, it must count as meeting prerequistes. And you only can't create provide potions, scrolls, and wands if the prerequisites are not met.If it does not work, the wording would have to be "In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion items without meeting its prerequisites, and you can't access prerequsiste spells through another magic item or spellcaster to create them."
But it doesn't say that.
As I stated opinions may differ on this one. I interpret the "In addition" in "The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion items without meeting its prerequisites." to mean that for those items you cannot waive the requirement in any way.
It also does not make much sense to me for scrolls by the way. You write a scroll by just waving a wand and the text of the spell that causes an effect to occur just appear on the paper? For everything else I could somehow justify it, but not for scrolls :-/
But this may be just my take on it. I am interested in other rulings and opinions, though :-)