It's my first read-through of Pathfinder, and I'm figuring out the Flurry of Blows Base Attack Bonus logic.
Does anyone else think the Flurry of Blows example in the FAQ is incorrect?
So a fighter 19/monk 1 has a normal BAB of +19. When he flurries, he treats his monk BAB as +1 (for his 1 level of monk) and still gets BAB +19 from his fighter levels, for a total flurry BAB of +20.
Shouldn't this be +19 (Fighter BAB) plus +1 (Monk BAB for Flurry = Monk Level) - 2 (as per Two-Weapon Fighting) for a total Flurry BAB of +18?
This is also consistent with taking the Monk's Flurry BAB for level 1 (-1 BAB from Table 3-10) and then add +19 BAB for a level 19 Fighter to get +18.
If I'm wrong, where's the error?
His BAB is still a 20 he has a -2 on the attacks but gains attacks for the whole BAB.
IE at 6th level a fighter 5/monk 1 would have 3 attacks on a flurry at BAB 6/6/1 the actual numbers before str and feats is 4/4/-1 this doesn't make him lose that last attack though.
His BAB is still a 20 he has a -2 on the attacks but gains attacks for the whole BAB.
IE at 6th level a fighter 5/monk 1 would have 3 attacks on a flurry at BAB 6/6/1 the actual numbers before str and feats is 4/4/-1 this doesn't make him lose that last attack though.
I'm not worried about the number of attacks, just the BAB for now.
So you agree that the Flurry BAB is +18, not +20 as the FAQ says?
Base Attack Bonus is its own statistic. The Base Attack Bonus stat never gets penalized, only the final attack rolls do.
Base Attack Bonus is used to figure out how many attacks you get on a full attack action. Even if those attacks come out to a negative (at a net penalty), if the Base Attack Bonus entitles you to them, you still get to roll them.
The only penalty that might apply is a negative level, but I'm pretty sure even that just penalizes the end attack result. Losing a level takes away the bonus to the BAB so it isn't technically a penalty.
Ah! Ok, so "Flurry BAB" doesn't makes sense of a concept, but "Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus" (like the top of Table 3-10) does. In guess in that sense, the FAQ led me wrong.
So, the Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus is +18, the +20 as mentioned with the -2 as per Two-Weapon Fighting.
Ah! Ok, so "Flurry BAB" doesn't makes sense of a concept, but "Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus" (like the top of Table 3-10) does.
In the special case of the monk, "Flurry BAB" makes sense; a monk has a BAB equal to 3/4 of his level when not flurrying and equal to his level when he is flurrying.
Ah! Ok, so "Flurry BAB" doesn't makes sense of a concept, but "Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus" (like the top of Table 3-10) does. In guess in that sense, the FAQ led me wrong.
So, the Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus is +18, the +20 as mentioned with the -2 as per Two-Weapon Fighting.
Seems like you're just trying to boil it down to the attack bonus.
This will cause you problems, you need to work through the whole process.
the attack bonus is BAB + STR + Weapon Enhancements + Situational Bonuses (like Charge, flank, buffs, etc) - Situational Penalties (like TWF, being prone, debuffs, etc)
BAB is VERY IMPORTANT to call out for the monk flurry of blows, because that's what determines the number of attacks he has. Recall that Monk uses his Monk Level for his BAB while Flurrying.
The character in the FAQ example has a 20 BAB while flurrying, which means he gets 4 attacks plus one bonus attack at his highest BAB.
(+20/+20/+15/+10/+5) Then you add the STR mod, any bonuses, and subtract any penalties. While flurrying, there's always the -2, as you are aware. So his PRE-STRENGTH attack array is
(+18/+18/+13/+8/+3).
I'm sure you probably figured that out, but keep in mind it is VERY IMPORTANT to not skip a step when you're figuring out how the attacks go together.
Then you add the STR mod, any bonuses, and subtract any penalties. While flurrying, there's always the -2, as you are aware. So his PRE-STRENGTH attack array is
(+18/+18/+13/+8/+3).I'm sure you probably figured that out, but keep in mind it is VERY IMPORTANT to not skip a step when you're figuring out how the attacks go together.
Ok, I think I've got it!
I'm pretty sure if you're a Fighter19/Monk1, you only get the flurry of a Monk1 +19 to each of those 2 attacks.
I'm pretty sure if you're a Fighter19/Monk1, you only get the flurry of a Monk1 +19 to each of those 2 attacks.
Correct.
A monk 1/fighter 19 has the following calculations when doing a flurry of blows :
BAB : 20 (19 from Fighter, 1 from Monk's Flurry BAB)
Flurry of Blows Penalty (per blow) : -1
So, his final attack is +19/+19 (assuming there are no other situational modifiers, and he has a 10 str).
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I'm pretty sure if you're a Fighter19/Monk1, you only get the flurry of a Monk1 +19 to each of those 2 attacks.Correct.
A monk 1/fighter 19 has the following calculations when doing a flurry of blows :
BAB : 20 (19 from Fighter, 1 from Monk's Flurry BAB)
Flurry of Blows Penalty (per blow) : -1So, his final attack is +19/+19 (assuming there are no other situational modifiers, and he has a 10 str).
Actually the Flurry Of Blows Attack Bonus listed in the Monk table is the net bonus, including Monk BAB already. Thus, a monk 1/fighter 19 would flurry for +18 for each attack (19 from fighter, -1 from monk). Assuming all assumptions in your post as well.
Except that your forgetting attacks from having a high BAB that monk has 5 attacks at 18/18/13/8/3 before any bonuses. He only gets one bonus attack from flurry but he still gets all of his other attacks just like a a fighter who has twf but not itwf or gtwf he only gets one extra attack but all of his normal ones.
Actually the Flurry Of Blows Attack Bonus listed in the Monk table is the net bonus, including Monk BAB already. Thus, a monk 1/fighter 19 would flurry for +18 for each attack (19 from fighter, -1 from monk). Assuming all assumptions in your post as well.
Meh, good catch.
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Meh, good catch.
Actually the Flurry Of Blows Attack Bonus listed in the Monk table is the net bonus, including Monk BAB already. Thus, a monk 1/fighter 19 would flurry for +18 for each attack (19 from fighter, -1 from monk). Assuming all assumptions in your post as well.
Thanks. Heh, usually I just ignore the table completely :P
Except that your forgetting attacks from having a high BAB that monk has 5 attacks at 18/18/13/8/3 before any bonuses. He only gets one bonus attack from flurry but he still gets all of his other attacks just like a a fighter who has twf but not itwf or gtwf he only gets one extra attack but all of his normal ones.
Hmmm,
You know, I just went and re-read it, and you appear to be correct. FoB's simply states it adds one attack, but applies -2 to all additional attacks. I wonder if that is different from 3.5? I don't have time to go look it up, but I somehow thought that it did originally. Anyway, I can admit when I'm wrong. Teach me to go look at things before I comment on them if I'm not up on the class. :)
I think it is differnt from 3.5 i know its different from 3.0
Except that your forgetting attacks from having a high BAB that monk has 5 attacks at 18/18/13/8/3 before any bonuses. He only gets one bonus attack from flurry but he still gets all of his other attacks just like a a fighter who has twf but not itwf or gtwf he only gets one extra attack but all of his normal ones.Hmmm,
You know, I just went and re-read it, and you appear to be correct. FoB's simply states it adds one attack, but applies -2 to all additional attacks. I wonder if that is different from 3.5? I don't have time to go look it up, but I somehow thought that it did originally. Anyway, I can admit when I'm wrong. Teach me to go look at things before I comment on them if I'm not up on the class. :)
The difference from 3.5 is that in 3.5 flurry did not get special bab but at higher levels removed the twf -2 penalty and all flurry bonus attacks were defined to be at max bab.
3.5 monk 20 flurry is +15/+15/+15/+10/+5
3.5 monk 1/fighter19 is 17/17/12/7/2