Build help

[Liongold]

Making a new PC. Thinking Elven Teleporter Wizard3/ Rogue2

Im wanting a skill monkey, who teleports around and stealthy backstabs. personlaity... He is a arrogant punk, who really only cares for himself. he is a orpan, grew up on the streets. his childhood Master/mentor is a Fagin (from oliver twist). he is grown once thrown in jail as a child, he was narced out. he now acts like a high born gentelman. was a cat burgler, untill very recently recuted into a adventuring party serching ancent ruins for tresure. Anything to stay out of jail or the streets.

Game details... morally gray campaign. High magic world, all magic items half priced, mudane items 1/4 priced. party is a controler wis, blaster sorc, 2weapon barb, and a swordboard fighter.

family and work keeping me very busy. please help me out.

edit: spelling and wiz3/rogue2

[Liongold]

Elf wiz(tele)3/rogue2
str12
dex18 (race +1lev)
con10 (-2 race)
int18 (race)
wiz12
Cha12

Feats (weapon fenesse, Dimensional Agility, Dimensional Assault, Arcane Armor Training (Combat))

Skills Acrobatics (+8), Appraise (+4), Bluff (+6), Climb (+4),Diplomacy (+6), Disable Device (+8), Disguise (+4), Escape Artist (+4), Intimidate (+4), Knowledge (nobility) (+4), Knowledge (local)(+4), Linguistics (+4), Perception (+8), Profession (merchant+4), Sense Motive (+4), Sleight of Hand (+7), Spellcraft (+4), Stealth (+8), Use Magic Device (+4).

What you think...?

[Tinalles]

If I were GM'ing this, I probably wouldn't allow the Teleportation school's Shift ability to fulfill the pre-requisites for the Dimensional Agility feat chain. The pre-req for Dimensional Agility is "Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door." The Teleporter ability Shift says that "you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door."

Monks get Abundant Step at level 8, and Wizards can cast Dimensional Door starting at level 7. Allowing it from level ONE would be WAY overpowered at lower levels.

That said, I would probably allow a 7th level Teleporter to use Shift with Dimensional Agility (and later feats in the chain). It makes sense for a person devoted to the study of teleportation to be able to use his innate ability with the feat; but it would take a while to figure out.

That said, I would also enforce the rule that using the ability is a swift action, so you cannot use any other swift-action ability in the same round (such as Arcane Armor Training).

It still sounds like a fun idea, but mostly at later levels.

Also, any Wizard with 10 CON is going to be fragile as a freshly bloomed lily -- low HP and terrible Fort saves.

[Vaellen]

The build you have is fine for your concept. I'm not sure how effective it will be on the battle mat but I think the weakness comes from the concept more than the build. We had a player that played an arcane trickster type and although the character could do lots of cool stuff outside of combat, he was completely outclassed by the sorcerer and the melee combatants (barbarian and ranger) when it came to battles. I have not found Rogues to be kings of battle that some people around here do and anytime you multiclass a full caster you quickly lose a lot of effectiveness.

Your character is going to struggle hitting things and doing damage with melee weapons, and won't have enough spells to be a be effective with magic ray attacks.

As long as you don't play with a group of optimizers or don't mind not being a star in combat then who cares? Go with what you have.

[Liongold]

Tinalles wrote:

If I were GM'ing this, I probably wouldn't allow the Teleportation school's Shift ability to fulfill the pre-requisites for the Dimensional Agility feat chain. The pre-req for Dimensional Agility is "Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door." The Teleporter ability Shift says that "you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door."

Monks get Abundant Step at level 8, and Wizards can cast Dimensional Door starting at level 7. Allowing it from level ONE would be WAY overpowered at lower levels....
...

I get what your saying, but a lev7 wiz Dimenional doors 680 ft, where I tele 10ft. i would think its ballanced.

Quote:

That said, I would also enforce the rule that using the ability is a swift action, so you cannot use any other swift-action ability in the same round (such as Arcane Armor Training).

I agree.

[Liongold]

Vaellen wrote:

The build you have is fine for your concept. I'm not sure how effective it will be on the battle mat but I think the weakness comes from the concept more than the build. We had a player that played an arcane trickster type and although the character could do lots of cool stuff outside of combat, he was completely outclassed by the sorcerer and the melee combatants (barbarian and ranger) when it came to battles. I have not found Rogues to be kings of battle that some people around here do and anytime you multiclass a full caster you quickly lose a lot of effectiveness.

Your character is going to struggle hitting things and doing damage with melee weapons, and won't have enough spells to be a be effective with magic ray attacks.

As long as you don't play with a group of optimizers or don't mind not being a star in combat then who cares? Go with what you have.

Thankyou, i like the idae of using teleporting "step" and sneak attacking... ::I was standing infront of you... now i stab you in the back...:: LOL fun. with a curve blade D10+d6+1 bab+2 combat advantage.

I dont mind not being a "Rockstar" in combat, its about the fun in game.

I dont plan to lev the wiz to much more. (maybe some...)

I see Nightwalker, with out the blue skin, and xmen to put me on the "right path"...

Any sugestions on changes. Ideas for majic??

[calagnar]

Liongold wrote:

Elf wiz(tele)3/rogue2

str12
dex18 (race +1lev)
con10 (-2 race)
int18 (race)
wiz12
Cha12

Feats (weapon fenesse, Dimensional Agility, Dimensional Assault, Arcane Armor Training (Combat))

Skills Acrobatics (+8), Appraise (+4), Bluff (+6), Climb (+4),Diplomacy (+6), Disable Device (+8), Disguise (+4), Escape Artist (+4), Intimidate (+4), Knowledge (nobility) (+4), Knowledge (local)(+4), Linguistics (+4), Perception (+8), Profession (merchant+4), Sense Motive (+4), Sleight of Hand (+7), Spellcraft (+4), Stealth (+8), Use Magic Device (+4).

What you think...?

This will work right up till the first time you get crited and die. Any one that plans on being close to melee needs a Con of 14 min. Starting with a 18 in Dex and Int dose you little good past level 5. Pick what you want to be focus on it. If your going to be a caster start with a Int 20. If your going to be a combat rogue ingress your Str and Con. This build type works best if. You plan on going AT in that it's a wast of time prc. And your much better off with a wizard with a few levels of rogue. But any ether way you build this kind of character will be far underpowered compared to the other players in combat.

A much better idea if this is they type of character you want is just go Magus. Then invest in rogue skills and use traits to make the important ones class skills.

[Liongold]

thanks calagnar,

I could drop int to 16 and raise con to 15 (at 8th lev ill bump it).

I dont want to move Int any lower, I want a skill monkey Thief, who teleports ("blinks") around making unexpected sneakattacks.

maybe Toughness instead of Dimensional Assault...(?)

"why pick the lock?" ::Blink to the other side... open the door.::

Im more interested in the story than "winning in combat". mage armor will be on my regular prepaired list.

Traits?? Equipment??

magic 50% discount

I was thinking Elven curveed Blade for main weapon.

[Tinalles]

Liongold wrote:

"why pick the lock?" ::Blink to the other side... open the door.::

Grolbok the Warlord looked up from the map, bored by his lieutenant's uninspired proposal for a stupid frontal assault on a well-maintained and staffed castle. He blinked as a little man in a pointy hat suddenly appeared in front of the locked chamber door. "What a good thing you need a key from both sides of this one," he thought.

The two stared at each other for a moment, and then, thanks to Improved Initiative, a decent DEX score, and a poor roll by his opponent, Grolbok won initiative and shouted: "Intruder! Get him!"

Standing out in the hallway and listening to the shouts, thuds, and pleading, the rest of the party shifted uneasily; but were prevented by a locked door from aiding their flamboyant companion.

"I knew he should have cast Invisibility first," the party's know-it-all Sorcerer remarked smugly.

------------------------------

Ah, but more to the point.

At level 5 with 3 levels of Wizard and 2 of Rogue, your BAB will be 2. Elven Curve Blades work with Weapon Finesse, and your DEX is 18, so your attack bonus would be 6.

But, neither Wizard nor Rogue grants you proficiency with an Elven Curve Blade, so you'll be taking a -4 penalty for using one, dropping your attack bonus to 2. You probably need to work in a Weapon Proficiency feat if curve blade is the way to go.

You're right about the fact that you can only teleport a short distance -- that is a balancing factor. Now that I look at it, the power's description says: "You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet)." If I understand that correctly, at level 3 as a wizard you would go only 5 feet, not ten. It'd still be useful -- for going through doors, or jumping really high for example -- but nowhere near as useful as 10 feet.

If I were building a character like this, I would probably do something like this:

Elf Rogue 1/Teleporter 4

25 point buy

STR 12
DEX 17 (15 base + 2 racial)
CON 14 (15 base - 2 racial + 1 level)
INT 17 (15 base + 2 racial)
WIS 12
CHA 10

Feats:

1 Toughness, 3 Weapon Finesse, 5 Extend Spell.

BAB 2 (0 from Rogue, 2 from Wizard, same as your first build).

Total attack bonus with a light weapon: +5. Which is tolerably decent, but still going to be about half what a comparable fighter or ranger could pull off.

Hit Points: 37 (8 from Rogue at level 1, and assuming average HP from Wiz levels for another 14, 10 from CON, and 5 from Toughness).

CHA can safely be used as a dump stat here. Your character description said he's "an arrogant punk", so he's probably not going to be winning any opposed Diplomacy checks anyway.

For traits -- Magical Knack will let you count two Rogue levels as a caster level, which will make your spells work better. Other trait to taste, or to fit the theme of the campaign.

At this point you'll have 10 feet of teleportation, six times a day.

Toughness is crucial in this case because he's in low-HP classes, and going to be in melee. Weapon Finesse is a good buy for the same reason. Extend Spell will let him eke the most out of his precious spells -- with 5 CLs (counting the Rogue level due to Magical Knack), an extended Mage Armor will last essentially all day, which will give you the same AC bonus as a chain shirt with no spell failure.

If you have your heart set on the Elven Curve Blade, ditch Extend Spell in favor of Weapon Proficiency. In that case, however, I recommend wearing armor and just accepting the arcane spell failure penalty. If your GM allows it at level 5, a Mithral Chain Shirt would be ideal. If not, Masterwork Leather Armor. Either way, the chance of spell failure is only 10%, which means that your spells will work 90% of the time. It's an acceptable tradeoff given that you want to keep your skin intact. (Also -- rolling for ASF is easy if it's 10%. A nat 1 on a d10 means it fizzled).

If you can bring yourself to part with the curve blade, just pick whatever light weapon takes your fancy. Rapier has that nice crit range, Dagger does low damage but does both slashing/piercing, and Light Mace is always handy for smacking skeletons.

I personally favor familiars over bonded objects, but either one works. Maybe he spotted a really awesome ring or something when he was burgling a house as a kid and filched it. Or perhaps some wealthy socialite had a caged fox he "liberated" along with a bunch of jewelry, and it's been his loyal companion ever since.

Lastly, if you take two more levels of Rogue (for a Wiz 4/Rogue 3), your logical next step is Arcane Trickster, which will get you boosted skill points, high Will AND Reflex saves, and progression in both sneak attack and casting.

[Liongold]

Thanks,
I like what you did. your right about the curved blade, (Ill go rapier with a mace for backup) I misread the racial descriptor. I really like the bonded object, was thinking a Ring of Sustenance.

[Liongold]

any equipment ideas???