Opposition Research + Arcane Bond?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Does eliminating my opposition schools by taking opposition research twice allow me to cast ANY spell from my spellbook with my once per day arcane bond ability, or can I still not cast opposition spells using that ability?

Grand Lodge

You can't take opposition research twice. You can't take any feat more than once unless the feat description itself specifically allows it, and OR is not one of those feats.


I was under the impression that feat could only be taken once.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
You can't take opposition research twice. You can't take any feat more than once unless the feat description itself specifically allows it, and OR is not one of those feats.

Good thing they aren't feats then. :P

In any case, even if I'm wrong about being able to take it twice, my question still stands. Does taking opposition school allow me to cast a prohibited spell through my once per day arcane bond ability?


By raw no.
It specifically calls out the two areas it covers, and that isn't one.

Grand Lodge

Ravingdork wrote:
LazarX wrote:
You can't take opposition research twice. You can't take any feat more than once unless the feat description itself specifically allows it, and OR is not one of those feats.

Good thing they aren't feats then. :P

In any case, even if I'm wrong about being able to take it twice, my question still stands. Does taking opposition school allow me to cast a prohibited spell through my once per day arcane bond ability?

Yes they are. the only thing that allows you to break an opposition school is the opposition research FEAT from Ultimate Magic. and you can only take the feat ONCE.

Grand Lodge

Ravingdork wrote:
LazarX wrote:
You can't take opposition research twice. You can't take any feat more than once unless the feat description itself specifically allows it, and OR is not one of those feats.

Good thing they aren't feats then. :P

In any case, even if I'm wrong about being able to take it twice, my question still stands. Does taking opposition school allow me to cast a prohibited spell through my once per day arcane bond ability?

Yes because the arcane bond ability is not a spell slot. Since the ability doesn't forbid it, it works.


Opposition research is not a feat, it is an arcane discovery...
that said, there are other ones that specifically call out being able to be chosen multiple times (True Name) while this one doesn't, so no doubling. (cry)
Also, it doesn't stop it from being a prohibited school, it just removes the penalties, so no Arcane Bond action : /


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm not contesting the idea that you can only take them once (golem constructor strongly implies the RAI in this case), but they are NOT feats in any way, shape, or form. They are alternate class abilities that REPLACE feats.

If they were feats, they would have been put into the feats chapter of Ultimate Magic along with the prerequisite "Wizard X level" and a "Special" line saying "you may take this feat as a wizard bonus feat."

Interzone: It's quite possible that, and one could argue, that the developers didn't bother to include such language because it was "blatantly obvious" that you would only have two schools you could take it with anyways.

That may not be the case, I'm just saying it could be argued (and also that it just might be the case ;P ).


Yeah, not a feat, but not more than once. And an opposition school is still an opposition school for other purposes, it just drops the 'needs two slots' and 'minus 4 for crafting' things.
Note: I totally house rule that you can take it twice though.


You may not take Opposition Research more than once...

Compare:

PRD - Ultimate Magic - Spellcasting Class Options - Wizard - Arcane Discoveries wrote:
Opposition Research: By completing strenuous studies, you have broken through the mental barriers that made it hard for you to prepare spells from one of your opposition schools. Select one wizard opposition school; preparing spells of this school now only requires one spell slot of the appropriate level instead of two, and you no longer have the –4 Spellcraft penalty for crafting items from that school. You must be at least a 9th-level wizard to select this discovery.

to

PRD - Ultimate Magic - Spellcasting Class Options - Wizard - Arcane Discoveries wrote:
Arcane Builder: You have an exceptional understanding of the theory behind creating magical items. Select one type of magic item (potions, wondrous items, and so on). You create items of this type 25% faster than normal, and gain a +4 bonus on Spellcraft checks (or other checks, as appropriate) to craft items of this type. You may select this discovery multiple times; its effects do not stack. Each time you select this discovery, it applies to a different type of magic item.

Arcane Discoveries are like all other class features, you cannot take them more than once if they do not explicitly state you can. Opposing Research is also very explicit on the benefits of taking it.

Arcane Discoveries are also technically a feat..

PRD - Ultimate Magic - Spellcasting Class Options - Wizard - Arcane Discoveries wrote:
A wizard can learn an arcane discovery in place of a regular feat or wizard bonus feat.

However, with that being said, I would like to see a built in scaling to both opposing schools or an ability to take this arcane discovery twice.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Stynkk wrote:
Arcane Discoveries are also technically a feat.

Technically, they are not. Though they are so similar in nature that they probably should have been.


Ravingdork wrote:
Technically, they are not. Though they are so similar in nature that they probably should have been.

I'd go with technically they are feats - they occupy a character's feat slots. But, actually they are Arcane Discoveries. :)


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Stynkk wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Technically, they are not. Though they are so similar in nature that they probably should have been.
I'd go with technically they are feats - they occupy a character's feat slots. But, actually they are Arcane Discoveries. :)

Nothing anywhere even says that you should write them in the same place you would feats on your character sheet.


This is a silly argument. But no, they are not feats, just very very very similar.
I don't think we need to go over this any more :P

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