Hello! I'm working on House Rules for my games. Specifically right now I'm working on what classes will be in my campaign setting. For this it's my belief that core classes should represent core concepts. As such I don't want hybrid classes or culturally specific classes as base. That should be the role of multi-classing, prestige classes, archetypes and alternate classes imo. As such I'm planning on having the base classes as follows. (listed in the thematic order of Traditional, Wilderness and Charismatic or whatever you want to call them?)
Warriors (Combat Masters): Fighter, Barbarian, Cavalier*
Experts (Skill Specialists): Rogue, Ranger**, Bard**
Priests (Divine Casters): Cleric, Druid*, Oracle
Adepts (Arcane Casters): Wizard, Witch, Sorcerer
*Cavaliers can use various archetypes and alternate classes to represent "knights" of different cultures. Druids can easily also represent shamans for non-european based cultures.
**Bards and Rangers need to be "de-hybridized"
Classes removed:
Monks are totally east asian in flavor and don't fit with a generalized setting. Paladins are too eurocentric and the idea that only LG (and sometimes CE) deities have champions never made any sense to me anyways. Why don't CG powers have a dedicated champion class? Pallies will be a type of specialized Cavalier in my game. Anyways I'm ranting now! :p
Alchemists, Inquisitors, Summoners and Magus are all hybrid classes. Seriously just play a Rogue/Cleric or a Fighter/Wizard. I wouldn't mind seeing these represented as prestige classes but they shouldn't be base in my opinion. Anybody know how to turn a base class into a prestige class? Just take the first ten levels of it and come up with some prerequisites?
Anyways! This leaves me needing to "de-hybridize Bards and Rangers.
Rangers are pretty easy. Just use the Skirmisher archetype (Advanced Players) as the base Ranger class. I'm thinking of also dropping their base attack to Rogue level and to make up for it giving them Ranger's Traps (Ultimate Magic) every even numbered level, starting with Snare. Not only would they not be casters but this would make them a less warrior focused and thus fit their specialized role better imo.
So my final remaining issue is the Bard. They are very hybridized and should be considered for cutting. However they've been around forever and are well established in DnDish games. They also have a specialized role that base Rogues don't entirely fill. Besides I need a third Expert class. ^_^
So what does one do with Bards to make them non-casters? At first I was thinking of giving them Masterpieces (Ultimate Magic) in place of spells but there aren't enough of them and it becomes a real mess with all the skill/instrument requirements. In fitting with their dashing nature I was thinking of using the 3.5 Swashbuckler (Complete Warrior) and just copying over their Special abilities in place of spells. While this is an easy patch I'm not sure it quite makes up for not being able to cast spells. Any ideas on what else could be done to Bards?
PS. It would be nice for the Spontaneous Casters (Oracles and Sorcerers) to use a Spell Point rather then Spell Slot system.
Spellcasting is such a big part of the class that you'll probably find it easier to throw the bard out completely and put its other major features into archetypes for other classes.
Take Arcane Duelist archetype as standard bard, take away spells, and boost BAB/HD to full/d10. Add a handful of extra bonus feats if it is felt necessary.
You have a nice "mage-hunter" type warrior who can buff allies in addition to being a good melee character, without entirely stepping on the toes of other martial classes.
Ya the more I look at it the more I tend to agree that the Bard would just need to be dropped along with the other heavily hybridized classes. Just need something else to fill that Expert slot with. Thanks for the input everybody. I really appreciate it! :)
One more thing, Arikiel---I wrote up a "Noble" class which incorporates a lot of the bard performances but is spell-less. Would you like to take a look? It hasn't been playtested so YMMV.
just give ranges one of the spell-less variant options (like traps)
Ya that would be the easiest way of handling it.
One more thing, Arikiel---I wrote up a "Noble" class which incorporates a lot of the bard performances but is spell-less. Would you like to take a look? It hasn't been playtested so YMMV.
Sure! I'd love to have a look at what you came up with. :)
Monks do not have to be Asian. Just stop thinking of them as if they walked off the set of a Kung Fu movie.
Many European cultures had a tradition of unarmed combat--pankration, Glima, boxing, and others. It was typical to have spiritual significance in the culture to the point of claiming supernatural powers.
Picture Hercules, unarmored, fighting monsters with his bare hands as a classical example.
As for bards, you can take away the spells and give them social-related bonus feats every even level. Make bardic performances a unique bonus type so it can stack with other bonuses.
Monks do not have to be Asian. Just stop thinking of them as if they walked off the set of a Kung Fu movie.
Many European cultures had a tradition of unarmed combat--pankration, Glima, boxing, and others. It was typical to have spiritual significance in the culture to the point of claiming supernatural powers.
Picture Hercules, unarmored, fighting monsters with his bare hands as a classical example.
As for bards, you can take away the spells and give them social-related bonus feats every even level. Make bardic performances a unique bonus type so it can stack with other bonuses.
I have a really hard time as seeing Hercules as Lawful. :p
Anyways I kind of see your point but then I look at the Archetypes and they're all very eastern.On the matter of Bards that's an idea I hadn't thought of before. I'll have to consider it. :)
Monks do not have to be Asian. Just stop thinking of them as if they walked off the set of a Kung Fu movie.
Many European cultures had a tradition of unarmed combat--pankration, Glima, boxing, and others. It was typical to have spiritual significance in the culture to the point of claiming supernatural powers.
Picture Hercules, unarmored, fighting monsters with his bare hands as a classical example.
As for bards, you can take away the spells and give them social-related bonus feats every even level. Make bardic performances a unique bonus type so it can stack with other bonuses.
+1
The Haruchai/Bloodguard/Masters whatever they happen to be called in the Thomas Covenant Chronicles by Steven Donaldson are a great example of how monks don't need to be Asian. Maybe others will feel differently, but as far as I am concerned, the Haruchai are the best scifi/fantasy rendition of the D&D/Pathfinder monk class.
just give ranges one of the spell-less variant options (like traps)Ya that would be the easiest way of handling it.
One more thing, Arikiel---I wrote up a "Noble" class which incorporates a lot of the bard performances but is spell-less. Would you like to take a look? It hasn't been playtested so YMMV.Sure! I'd love to have a look at what you came up with. :)
Here you go. I honestly am uncertain of how well balanced it is -- and it makes Leadership a class feature which I realize may not be a desirable thing depending on the nature of the campaign. The class uses stuff liberally borrowed not only from the Bard but the Slayers d20 Noble and, believe it or not, the d20 Modern Personality.
NOBLE
The noble represents both remarkable members of the aristocracy as well as others in high levels of society or politics; some nobles may indeed be nobles “in spirit” only, simply with a few resources and the natural charisma and means to draw a crowd should they desire. They are natural leaders and expert tacticians, inspiring others to do well on their behalf, and drawing loyal followers with ease. While nobles are not focused combatants the way fighters, barbarians, martial artists, and cavaliers are, their way of life often places them as battlefield commanders (or at least figurehead warlords), and most nobles are expected to master certain arts of combat as at least a matter of physical artistry if not to be able to answer a challenge to a duel.
Role: Gifted with natural leadership, the noble can make everyone around him perform better than they believe they could accomplish alone. Nobles can lead the charge in battle and negotiate complex peaces off the field.
Alignment: Any
Hit die: d8
The noble’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Engineering, Geography, History, Nobility, Local, Religion, Tactics) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), and Survival (Wis).
Skill Ranks Per Level: 4 + Int modifier. (((this could probably go up to 6 without much harm)))
TABLE: THE NOBLE (I have no idea how to format this properly, sorry. If it's hard to see, it's a 3/4 bab with good Fort and Will saves)
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1 0 2 0 2 Status Symbol, Educated, Noble Inspiration, Inspire Courage +1
2 1 3 0 3 Renown, Fascinate 1 creature
3 2 3 1 3 Inspire Competence +2
4 3 4 1 4 Talented, Bonus Feat
5 3 4 1 4 Inspire Courage +2, Fascinate 2 creatures
6 4 5 2 5 Leadership
7 5 5 2 5 Inspire Competence +3
8 6/1 6 2 6 Proclamation of Doom, Fascinate 3 creatures, Bonus Feat
9 6/1 6 3 6 Inspire Greatness (1 target), Invest Authority 1/day
10 7/2 7 3 7 Winning Smile
11 8/3 7 3 7 Inspire Courage +3, Inspire Competence +4, Fascinate 4 creatures
12 9/4 8 4 8 Inspire Greatness (2 targets), Bonus Feat
13 9/4 8 4 8 Proclamation of Fear, Invest Authority 2/day
14 10/5 9 4 9 Inspire Courage +3, Fascinate 5 creatures
15 11/6/1 9 5 9 Inspire Competence +5, Inspire Greatness (3 targets)
16 12/7/2 10 5 10 Inspire Heroics, Bonus Feat
17 12/7/2 10 5 10 Inspire Courage +4, Fascinate 6 creatures, Invest Authority 3/day
18 13/8/3 11 6 11 Great Leadership, Inspire Greatness (4 targets)
19 14/9/4 11 6 11 Inspire Competence +6
20 15/10/5 12 6 12 Rallying cry, Fascinate 7 creatures, Bonus Feat
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Nobles are proficient in all simple weapons, all armor, and shields (except tower shields). In addition, they may choose proficiency in any two of the following: longsword, short sword, rapier, bastard sword (martial only), flail, lance, shortbow, longbow, composite shortbow, composite longbow.
Status Symbol: In addition to standard starting wealth, nobles begin the game with one masterwork weapon which must be chosen from the list of weapons in which they are proficient, noble’s clothing, and a signet ring (or other unique proof of identity). They may not trade these items at character creation for other wealth. Loss of these items may come with a loss of face or honor, and the noble may be unable to prove his identity in areas where he is not well known; see the renown class feature for more information.
Educated: Reflecting the benefit of advanced schooling available only to gentlemen and women, nobles get a +2 class bonus to two skills of their choice, choosing from Linguistics or any Knowledge skill in their class skill list. They also gain a bonus language, choosing from any available language except secret languages.
Noble Inspiration: Nobles are gifted leaders, able to instill a sense of awe or hope into those who follow them—or oppose them. A noble can deliver a speech so grand that it effectively creates magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired. He can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + his Charisma modifier. At each level after 1st a noble can use noble inspiration for 2 additional rounds per day. Each round, the noble can produce any one of the types of noble inspiration that he has mastered, as indicated by his level.
Starting noble inspiration is a standard action, but it can be maintained each round as a free action. Changing noble inspiration from one effect to another requires the noble to stop the previous speech and start a new one as a standard action. Noble inspiration cannot be disrupted, but it ends immediately if the noble is killed, paralyzed, stunned, knocked unconscious, or otherwise prevented from taking a free action to maintain it each round. A noble cannot have more than one noble inspiration in effect at one time.
At 7th level, a noble can start noble inspiration as a move action instead of a standard action. At 13th level, a noble can start noble inspiration as a swift action.
Each noble inspiration has audible components. The targets must be able to hear the noble for the speech to have any effect, and noble inspirations are language dependent. A deaf noble has a 20% chance to fail when attempting to use this ability. If he fails this check, the attempt still counts against his daily limit. Deaf creatures are immune to noble inspiration.
Inspire Courage (Su): A 1st-level noble can use his performance to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 5th level, and every six noble levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +4 at 17th level. Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability.
Fascinate (Su): At 2nd level, a noble can make a speech to cause one or more creatures to become fascinated with him. Each creature to be fascinated must be within 90 feet, able to see and hear the noble, and capable of paying attention to him. The noble must also be able to see the creatures affected. The distraction of nearby combat or other dangers prevents this ability from working. For every three levels the noble has attained beyond 2nd, he can target one additional creature with this ability.
Each creature within range receives a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the noble’s level + the noble's Cha modifier) to negate the effect. If a creature's saving throw succeeds, the noble cannot attempt to fascinate that creature again for 24 hours. If its saving throw fails, the creature sits quietly and listens to the noble’s speech as long as he continues to maintain it. While fascinated, a target takes a –4 penalty on all skill checks made as reactions, such as Perception checks. Any potential threat to the target allows the target to make a new saving throw against the effect. Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a weapon at the target, automatically breaks the effect.
Fascinate is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting ability.
Inspire Competence (Su): A noble of 3rd level or higher can use his inspiration to help an ally succeed at a task. That ally must be within 30 feet and be able to hear the noble. The ally gets a +2 competence bonus on skill checks with a particular skill as long as she continues to hear the noble’s speech. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the noble has attained beyond 3rd (+3 at 7th, +4 at 11th, +5 at 15th, and +6 at 19th). Certain uses of this ability are infeasible, such as Stealth, and may be disallowed at the GM's discretion. A noble can't inspire competence in himself. Inspire competence relies on audible components.
Proclamation of Doom (Su): A noble of 8th level or higher can use his inspirational ability to foster a sense of growing dread in his enemies, causing them to become shaken. To be affected, an enemy must be within 30 feet and able to hear the noble while he delivers his speech. The effect persists for as long as the enemy is within 30 feet and the noble continues his inspiration. This inspiration cannot cause a creature to become frightened or panicked, even if the targets are already shaken from another effect. Proclamation of doom is a mind-affecting fear effect.
Inspire Greatness (Su): A noble of 9th level or higher can use noble inspiration to inspire greatness in himself or a single willing ally within 30 feet, granting extra fighting capability. For every three levels the noble attains beyond 9th, he can target an additional ally while using this ability (up to a maximum of four targets at 18th level). To inspire greatness, all of the targets must be able to see and hear the noble. A creature inspired with greatness gains 2 bonus Hit Dice (d10s), the commensurate number of temporary hit points (apply the target's Constitution modifier, if any, to these bonus Hit Dice), a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls, and a +1 competence bonus on Fortitude saves. The bonus Hit Dice count as regular Hit Dice for determining the effect of spells that are Hit Dice dependent. Inspire greatness is a mind-affecting ability.
Proclamation of Fear (Sp): A noble of 13th level or higher can use his inspirational ability to cause fear in his enemies. To be affected, an enemy must be able to hear the noble perform and be within 30 feet. Each enemy within range receives a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the noble's level + the noble's Cha modifier) to negate the effect. If the save succeeds, the creature is immune to this ability for 24 hours. If the save fails, the target becomes frightened and flees for as long as the target can hear the noble’s speech.
Inspire Heroics (Su): A noble of 16th level or higher can inspire tremendous heroism in a number of allies equal to his Charisma modifier, including himself. To inspire heroics, all of the targets must be within 30 feet of the noble and be able to see and hear him. Inspired creatures gain a +4 morale bonus on saving throws and a +4 dodge bonus to AC. This effect lasts for as long as the targets are able to witness the performance. Inspire heroics is a mind-affecting ability.
Renown (Ex): At 2nd level, nobles become easily recognized enough in geographic regions where their family or associations have clout, and their acknowledged authority grants them access to places others may not be able to go. In political, bureaucratic, and other situations of intrigue, they get a +4 to Diplomacy and Intimidate checks. Examples of where this bonus applies includes (but is not restricted to) the following: attempting to enter restricted areas, be invited to (or successfully otherwise access) private gatherings, pass military checkpoints, talk a guard out of a restriction such as peace-bonding of weapons. Unfortunately, they also get a -4 to Disguise in these areas, because they are easily recognized; the penalty may also apply to Stealth if, for example, an undisguised noble is trying to blend in with a crowd.
Renown also gives the noble a “line of credit,” representing the noble’s ability to obtain small items as favors or receive discounts in the service of the noble’s cause or estate. Once per day, a noble can choose to do one of the following if he succeeds on a DC 15 Diplomacy check (he does not get the above bonus to this check):
1. He may obtain a single piece of mundane gear, livestock, or hired assistance for a single non-magical task without any cost.
2. He may purchase a single item, mundane or magical, at 25% less than the market price. This item has to be already available.
In some areas, a noble may need to prove his identity to use the benefits of the renown class feature. If he loses the items granted by status symbol, he may not be able to use this class feature, at least in certain circumstances (though he should always be able to use it in his home community).
Bonus Feat: At 4th level, and every 4th level thereafter (8, 12, 16, and 20), the noble gains a bonus combat feat. The noble can choose any combat feat so long as he satisfies the prerequisites.
Talented (Ex): A well-bred noble often learns trivia or a respectable hobby or art to pass the time and to impress others with their well-roundedness. At 4th level, the noble gains Skill Focus as a bonus feat, applying it to any one Craft, Perform, Profession, or Knowledge Skill in which the noble has at least one rank.
Leadership (Ex): A noble gains Leadership as a bonus feat at 6th level and gains a +2 to his leadership score. His cohort is likely a squire or devoted warrior in his service.
Invest Authority (Ex): At 9th level, as a full round action, a noble can touch a single ally, cohort, or follower and grant the target a morale bonus to saving throws and skill checks equal to the noble’s Charisma modifier for one minute. The noble can do this once per day at 9th level, and an additional time at 13th and 17th levels.
Winning Smile (Su): At 10th level, the noble is able to use his force of personality or great degree of social influence to make one person a sudden, trusted, loyal friend. The noble must engage with the target for at least one minute (and neither he nor his allies can attack or be otherwise hostile toward the target), and the target must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the noble's level + the noble's Cha modifier). If the target fails the saving throw, he perceives the noble in the most favorable way. He is likely to comply with the Noble’s wishes and will help defend the noble if he is threatened, but will not do anything self-harmful or suicidal. Any hostility toward the target will break the effect. As long as nothing happens to break the effect early, Winning Smile lasts for one minute per noble class level. A noble can only affect one creature with Winning Smile at a time.
Great Leadership (Ex): At 18th level, the noble gets an additional cohort and twice the number of followers, as if he had taken the Leadership feat a second time, and again adds +2 to his leadership score.
Rallying Cry (Su): At 20th level, the noble is filled with such resolve and mental fortitude he can radiate his inner strength to others. Once per day as a full round action, he gives a rallying speech. He and all allies who can see or hear the noble within 30 feet are instantly cured of all negative conditions, ability damage, and ability drain. Additionally, all affected allies’ critical threat ranges double (even if they are already doubled by keen weapons or the Improved Critical feat) for a number of rounds equal to the noble’s Charisma modifier.