So, I like arcane magic. And I like spontaneous casting. And I like magical healing.
So, how balanced would it be for a Witch to have the Spells Known and Spells Per Day of the Sorcerer? Would they have to give up anything-- aside from their usual method of spellcasting-- in exchange?
Or, if that were problematic, what about allowing a Sorcerer to replace the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list with the Witch list?
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So, I like arcane magic. And I like spontaneous casting. And I like magical healing.
So, how balanced would it be for a Witch to have the Spells Known and Spells Per Day of the Sorcerer? Would they have to give up anything-- aside from their usual method of spellcasting-- in exchange?
Or, if that were problematic, what about allowing a Sorcerer to replace the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list with the Witch list?
I would say to balance the witch having spontaneous casting, you'd just have to drop her familiar. Hexes are close enough to bloodline powers... yeah just drop the familiar and have her get her spells directly into her brain, and you'd probably be fine.
I would like that, but I am concerned that the Witch familiar is as much a class restriction as it is a class ability-- it's like the Wizard's spellbook, from which he has to make significant sacrifices to win his independence.
Of course, the ability to swap out spells whether by spellbook or by familiar is the main advantage prepared casters have over Sorcerers.
Yeah, I'd keep the familiar and keep the spells stored in the familiar.
Is spontaneous casting with the lack of spells known that goes along with it really enough of a boost that you have to lose other features too?
That's what I'm asking, because I'm not certain about the comparison between school powers and bloodline powers. I think Hexes are far more powerful-- and I want the hexes-- but that's making up for their limited spell list.
I'm more than willing to accept having limited Spells Known in exchange for spontaneous casting, but if I can lose the familiar in the deal, I'd prefer to.
What about approaching it from the other angle, replacing the Sorcerer class spell list with the weaker Witch list?
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Taking this archtype, a witch becomes a spontaneous spellcaster. This archtype MUST be taken at first level. The witch's spells per day chart is replaced with that of the sorcerer. The witch gains a spells known chart, also identical to that of the sorcerer. Patron spells function similarly to bloodline bonus spells...they are spells that the witch automatically knows, beyond those learned on the spells known chart. The witch's skill points increase to 4+ Int bonus per level. Finally, a witch with this archtype associates her Charisma score with her spellcasting, not her intelligence.
Yeah, that's more or less what I was thinking. Is there any reason that the Spontaneous Witch would have to use Charisma? I would really prefer to keep it at Intelligence.
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Yeah, that's more or less what I was thinking. Is there any reason that the Spontaneous Witch would have to use Charisma? I would really prefer to keep it at Intelligence.
Mostly just because I tend to associate prepared arcane - Intelligence, prepared divine - Wisdom, spontaneous - Charisma. If you altered it to be Intelligence, I would skip the bit about increasing the skill points to 4 + Int bonus, since I added that in as a counterbalance to the skill points that would be lost with a loss of emphasis on Intelligence.
Every spontanous caster uses charisma, oracle, sorcerer, bard.
Flavorwise that's because spontanous caster don't train their spells they summon them up with their own willpower, sort of.
Balancewise, I don't know really. Fear that Int would get too strong? Hardly believe that, since that's not actually a concern for Wizard/Witches either.
Other than that I think just switching to spontanous casting is enough. The limited spells known and the fact you get access to a spelllevel a character level later is enough of a tradeoff, infact it's probably putting you at a disadvantage.
So I'd say don't take away any more. And the familiar is kinda too important for the witch flavorwise to get rid of it, it's her connection to the patron that grants her spells.
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The limited spells known and the fact you get access to a spelllevel a character level later is enough of a tradeoff, infact it's probably putting you at a disadvantage.
Yeah. I'm hoping that Pathfinder 2E fixes that. In my opinion, the limited number of spells known is plenty of balancing factor...having the sorcerer get Xth level spells a character level later than the wizard seems like overkill to me.
Yeah. I'm hoping that Pathfinder 2E fixes that. In my opinion, the limited number of spells known is plenty of balancing factor...having the sorcerer get Xth level spells a character level later than the wizard seems like overkill to me.
For 3.5 I'd definitely sign that statement, for PF i'm not so sure. After all Sorcerers get all those nifty bloodline things now. (I'm not saying it's balanced, I've not thought about it too much yet, but it's not as blatantly obvious as in 3.5)
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For 3.5 I'd definitely sign that statement, for PF i'm not so sure. After all Sorcerers get all those nifty bloodline things now. (I'm not saying it's balanced, I've not thought about it too much yet, but it's not as blatantly obvious as in 3.5)
Witch hexes largely put bloodline powers to shame, but witches didn't get their spell progression nerfed.
Every spontanous caster uses charisma, oracle, sorcerer, bard.
except the inquisitor.
You know, you can build a witch-themed sorcerer just from making a sorcerer with an appropriate bloodline and spell selection.
Yes. I am less interested in the Witch flavor-- which I do not care for--as I am the fact that the Witch's spell list is the only list that contains the bulk of the spells I want, in the conditions I want, without jumping through a ridiculous number of hoops.
As much as I like the Witch's Hex ability, playing a Sage Sorcerer who could learn spells from the Witch list would be better for me.
except the inquisitor.Every spontanous caster uses charisma, oracle, sorcerer, bard.
You're right, I thought they would prepare too.
Weird that they broke the pattern there, but that pretty much means you're ok to break it with your witch-archetype as well.Also I think you can take an archetype for Sorcerers that makes Int or Wis your primary stat, so again, seems ok to do it.
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Broken into three varieties:
Taking this archtype, a witch becomes a spontaneous spellcaster. This archtype MUST be taken at first level. The witch's spells per day chart is replaced with that of the sorcerer. The witch gains a spells known chart, also identical to that of the sorcerer. Patron spells function similarly to bloodline bonus spells...they are spells that the witch automatically knows, beyond those learned on the spells known chart. The witch's skill points increase to 4+ Int bonus per level. Finally, a witch with this archtype associates her Charisma score with her spellcasting, not her intelligence.
Taking this archtype, a witch becomes a spontaneous spellcaster. This archtype MUST be taken at first level. The witch's spells per day chart is replaced with that of the sorcerer. The witch gains a spells known chart, also identical to that of the sorcerer. Patron spells function similarly to bloodline bonus spells...they are spells that the witch automatically knows, beyond those learned on the spells known chart. The witch's skill points increase to 4+ Int bonus per level. Finally, a witch with this archtype associates her Wisdom score with her spellcasting, not her intelligence.
Taking this archtype, a witch becomes a spontaneous spellcaster. This archtype MUST be taken at first level. The witch's spells per day chart is replaced with that of the sorcerer. The witch gains a spells known chart, also identical to that of the sorcerer. Patron spells function similarly to bloodline bonus spells...they are spells that the witch automatically knows, beyond those learned on the spells known chart.