Dragon Style and Power Attack.


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

So the Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity adds additional damage from your strength to unarmed strikes, Feral Combat Training lets you use feats that alter unarmed strikes effect one natural weapon, power attack treats primary natural attacks that use 1.5 strength the same way it treats two-handed weapons. Would this feat combination allow extra damage from power attack to be dealt by the selected natural attacks, if primary? What about the natural attacks that now add x2 strength? Would they deal more damage with Power Attack? Feats descriptions below:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dragon-style-combat
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dragon-ferocity-combat
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/feral-combat-training-combat
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/power-attack-combat


blackbloodtroll wrote:


Dragon Style
Dragon Ferocity
Feral Combat Training
Power attack

Linked it for you. I know that if you flurry that it wouldn't work since natural weapons will do 1/2 strength modifier on such an attack.

If you were attacking with just the natural weapons I would think that it could work the way you state.

Grand Lodge

Oh no, I would use this combo with the unarmed fighter, playing as a changeling with the Adopted and Tusked traits to have both claws and bite. Still no idea as to how the power attack feat would interact with an attack that adds x2 damage from strength. Possibly +100% damage rather than the +50% a 1.5 weapon does?


How are you getting x2 strength?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Oh no, I would use this combo with the unarmed fighter, playing as a changeling with the Adopted and Tusked traits to have both claws and bite. Still no idea as to how the power attack feat would interact with an attack that adds x2 damage from strength. Possibly +100% damage rather than the +50% a 1.5 weapon does?

No. For one, you aren't technically getting 2x strength. You're getting 1.5x strength, and then additional bonus damage equal to 0.5x strength. That may sound nitpicky, but it matters. Here's an example:

You have a strength of 20 (+5 bonus). With the way the feats currently work, your first unarmed strike would deal 9 bonus damage (FLOOR(5*1.5)+FLOOR(5*0.5)). If the feats actually gave you 2x bonus, you'd deal 10 bonus damage.

Even if it did actually give you 2x damage, you still wouldn't get to invent a new power attack ratio. You'd just use the best fit.

Also note that your unarmed attacks after the first do not qualify for the 3:1 power attack ratio because, again, the extra damage from Dragon Ferocity is different than increasing the strength multiplier (as Dragon Style does).

Grand Lodge

Fozbek wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Oh no, I would use this combo with the unarmed fighter, playing as a changeling with the Adopted and Tusked traits to have both claws and bite. Still no idea as to how the power attack feat would interact with an attack that adds x2 damage from strength. Possibly +100% damage rather than the +50% a 1.5 weapon does?

No. For one, you aren't technically getting 2x strength. You're getting 1.5x strength, and then additional bonus damage equal to 0.5x strength. That may sound nitpicky, but it matters. Here's an example:

You have a strength of 20 (+5 bonus). With the way the feats currently work, your first unarmed strike would deal 9 bonus damage (FLOOR(5*1.5)+FLOOR(5*0.5)). If the feats actually gave you 2x bonus, you'd deal 10 bonus damage.

Even if it did actually give you 2x damage, you still wouldn't get to invent a new power attack ratio. You'd just use the best fit.

Also note that your unarmed attacks after the first do not qualify for the 3:1 power attack ratio because, again, the extra damage from Dragon Ferocity is different than increasing the strength multiplier (as Dragon Style does).

The x2 strength would be when making a full attack with natural weapons only, and as Dragon style would add an strength .5 to the first attack and Dragon Ferocity would add an additional .5 strength to the attack as well, you would now have a x2 strength, and the others would have x1.5 as they are primary attacks effected by the feat.


blackbloodtroll wrote:


The x2 strength would be when making a full attack with natural weapons only, and as Dragon style would add an strength .5 to the first attack and Dragon Ferocity would add an additional .5 strength to the attack as well, you would now have a x2 strength, and the others would have x1.5 as they are primary attacks effected by the feat.

No.

Dragon Ferocity does not increase your Strength damage multiplier. It adds extra bonus damage equal to half of your Strength. Your initial attack is still at a 1.5x multiplier and your additional flurry attacks are at 1x multiplier. Both your initial and additional attacks then get bonus damage equal to half your Strength. This is a different thing than getting 2x and 1.5x Strength to damage.

Grand Lodge

Fozbek wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:


The x2 strength would be when making a full attack with natural weapons only, and as Dragon style would add an strength .5 to the first attack and Dragon Ferocity would add an additional .5 strength to the attack as well, you would now have a x2 strength, and the others would have x1.5 as they are primary attacks effected by the feat.

No.

Dragon Ferocity does not increase your Strength damage multiplier. It adds extra bonus damage equal to half of your Strength. Your initial attack is still at a 1.5x multiplier and your additional flurry attacks are at 1x multiplier. Both your initial and additional attacks then get bonus damage equal to half your Strength. This is a different thing than getting 2x and 1.5x Strength to damage.

This is odd in that 1.5x strength, is different than 1x + .5x strength. I might be inclined to believe you, if the feat stated something such as this additional damage is not effected by a critical, but it does not. I see no difference, in the two.


blackbloodtroll wrote:


This is odd in that 1.5x strength, is different than 1x + .5x strength. I might be inclined to believe you, if the feat stated something such as this additional damage is not effected by a critical, but it does not. I see no difference, in the two.

What do criticals have to do with anything? Bonus damage is still multiplied on criticals, unless it's variable damage (bonus dice); for example, Weapon Specialization is bonus damage, and is multiplied on criticals.

I've already provided both the mathematical AND the logical proof for you. That you refuse to believe them doesn't mean they aren't true.

Grand Lodge

I looked closer at all the feats and rules, the extra power attack damage should effect the first attack, but not the others. I see now that in this particular case, 1.5 =/= 1+.5, and unless my dm house rules this another way, this is how it will work.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Fozbek wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Oh no, I would use this combo with the unarmed fighter, playing as a changeling with the Adopted and Tusked traits to have both claws and bite. Still no idea as to how the power attack feat would interact with an attack that adds x2 damage from strength. Possibly +100% damage rather than the +50% a 1.5 weapon does?

No. For one, you aren't technically getting 2x strength. You're getting 1.5x strength, and then additional bonus damage equal to 0.5x strength. That may sound nitpicky, but it matters. Here's an

The x2 strength would be when making a full attack with natural weapons only, and as Dragon style would add an strength .5 to the first attack and Dragon Ferocity would add an additional .5 strength to the attack as well, you would now have a x2 strength, and the others would have x1.5 as they are primary attacks effected by the feat.

Actually it specifically says "Benefit: While using Dragon Style, increase your Strength bonus on unarmed strike damage rolls by an additional one-half your Strength bonus to a total of double your Strength bonus on the first attack and 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the other attacks."


What, you never had a seven year itch?

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