I've outlined a cleric archetype to turn a cleric into a spontaneous caster. The archetype also exchanges a domain and channel energy for various divine gifts, including a "martyr" ability to heal someone's HP at the cost of your own. The archetype is known as the Saint, a person who is given divine power by a god, and transforms or grows in power as they live out their divine mission--but sometimes are expected to give up much of themselves to assist others (at least those of their faith).
Yes, of course, there is the Oracle already for spontaneous divine caster, but the Oracle's flavor is very specific and doesn't suit all campaign ideas that I use. I find both oracles' curses and mysteries a little limiting; my hope with the saint is that it's got enough basic flavor while still giving a player to customize their character toward whatever specific feel they want for a divine champion. (And of course you could always use both.)
And yes, I cribbed a ton off Complete Divine's favored soul for inspiration.
The link on GoogleDocs is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MZJf5HvQl5R99Z7ZC-clChivabh7WHd8frWLMqB l9V0/edit
Let me know if you'd prefer me to paste this into the body of a thread post.
This is very much "alpha phase."
Some questions/notes:
1. Everything is currently based off Wisdom. There'd be a strong argument to base it off Charisma as well -- or make divine gifts at least based off Charisma (since they are a substitute for channel energy). Do you think it's good as is, switch everything to Cha, or make it 50/50 (which will make it a more MAD class). Or even let the player choose?
2. Is the 24 hour limitation on not magically healing Martyr's gift okay? Should it be less? More?
3. Yes, I know I need way more divine gifts than listed. Any suggestions? Do they feel relatively in line with each other?
Any and all feedback much appreciated.
I rather like it. Keep on with the project.^^
Thanks! Any thoughts on the Wisdom versus Charisma issue?
It seems reasonable. After all, the Inquisitor is a Wisdom-based spontaneous caster too. I wanted to see more of it.
Do you like my new Friar + Priestly Vows system, by the way? It could be good for your Saint too.
Thanks! Any thoughts on the Wisdom versus Charisma issue?
Whichever way you go, I think it needs to be one or the other. (I prefer Charisma for this sort of concept). I once played a Favored Soul in a game with a jerk of a DM (in almost every respect), and I pointed out the weakness of a Favored Soul's MAD, and asked if we could just make it Charisma instead. He said no, without even a moment's deliberation, merely because that was the RAW. I'm not a power-gamer, and am terrible at making powerful characters even when I want to. I was playing with 3 powergamers, and the MAD just hamstrung me even more. (I still like Favored Souls, though--but I'm going to take the Oracle class for a spin just to see how I like it. I *do* like that it provides a way to play a Holy person without being devoted to any particular deity).
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Note that the Favored Soul also doesn't require either devotion to or even faith in a deity really, nor does it really have to be of any specific alignment. :)
With the exception of the Cha/Wis (and the fact that lack of Know Religion and no Turn Undead pretty much made it impossible to Prestige Class, ever. . .), it would have been a great class.
For the Saint, (I can't seem to look at it?), I would suggest making/keeping it Wis based. For one, there are already way to many Cha based classes. Spontanious doesn't mean Cha, and it is a Cleric Archtype, so there is no reason to switch the spellcasting.
At the very least I think it behooves you to look at the Favored Soul in the Complete Divine as a reference.
It might behoove you to reread the OP. ;)
And yes, I cribbed a ton off Complete Divine's favored soul for inspiration.
:) (That's where a lot of the divine gift abilities come from.)
Also, I think "saint" is more a PrC than base Class.
Do you mean simply the name of the class or the abilities I've laid out?
But I really like your design.
Thank you very much!
Beckett: When I have a chance I will copy the class build here (I'm about to run out the door at the moment). And even though you haven't seen the class you roundabout make a good point--this build also doesn't have channel energy, so it also wouldn't qualify for a lot of divine PrCs. Now, in Pathfinder, that's less of an issue than in 3.5 but it's worth bearing in mind. OTOH, part of why I came up with the alternate system is because I was seeing a bunch of folks wanting to see alternatives precisely for channel energy.
Kelvar: Thanks for your thoughts. I agree avoiding MAD one way or another is probably better. I remember now (I originally wrote this up awhile ago) the reason I stuck to Wis was to keep it more different from oracle, which is also the reason I wanted to associate the saint with a deity, since oracle backs more of a concept. But I also think Cha does suit this idea well.
Bardess: Thanks. And your vows look like a nice update/conversion from the Exalted Deeds and similar books--I haven't had a chance to read through all of them but I think it's a great idea.
TOZ: I hadn't looked much at UA; I think I want to stick to the archetype with a little more flavor but I will at least check it out for comparison.