Less frequently used armors

[Spall]

I've been trying to figure out what roles the majority of armor types fill and it's giving me a hard time. It was similar in 3.5, but I had a handful of ways to create at least a reason to use the off-sets of armor beyond the first levels. I was considering doing something similar as I start a PF game, but didn't want to bother if I was missing something.

For the most part, there's only really one type of each heavier armor (breastplate, full plate) and all the rest are simply taking up space. Theres a few niches in light armor where a chain shirt isn't always the obvious choice (it's close though) and hide is obviously useful when you can't wear metal and can't afford better alternatives.

For the medium and heavy armors the only niche I can think of (other than breastplate and full plate) is the tiny range where you can't afford what you want. At first level some of the crappy medium armor might get used and the lesser heavy armor might see some use till maybe 4th level, but after that I don't see them existing in the game world. Enchanters would never bother working with the lesser base armors, as they could always come up with superior results simply using a breastplate or full plate to start with.

Is this how the game plays out (ie everyone in medium armor uses breastplate and everyone in heavy uses full)? If so, it's not really a problem gameplay-wise, but it just seems boring to have everyone in the same armor.

I'm looking to read some alternative rules that would foster more diversity in armor selections. I don't really want to revamp the whole system, but it would be cool if there was at least some reason to have chainmail, banded mail, etc in my game past the first few levels.

[Magnu123]

The only reason to wear other armors than breast/full plate would be to get a lower ACP or Max. Dex. bonus. The reason that very few people opt for this is that Max. Dex is already high enough that very few character's builds are ever hurt by it (some build away from Dex to avoid the conflict aswell)
As far as the ACP, that applies only to select skills. First off: Most people wearing your tank-like armor aren't going to be your skill monkeys. Second: Have a look at which skills get ACP- acrobatics, climb, swim, ride, stealth, fly, escape artist, and a couple of others. Now think about how often you are faced with these checks that you're not able to just take your armor off before attempting them. Why would anyone wear fullplate if they know they're about to dive into a river?

[Quintin Crusher]

Spall wrote:

Is this how the game plays out (ie everyone in medium armor uses breastplate and everyone in heavy uses full)? If so, it's not really a problem gameplay-wise, but it just seems boring to have everyone in the same armor.

I think you would be more accurate with "mithral breastplate" and "mithral fullplate."

[Laurefindel]

Spall wrote:

(snip)

Is this how the game plays out (ie everyone in medium armor uses breastplate and everyone in heavy uses full)? If so, it's not really a problem gameplay-wise, but it just seems boring to have everyone in the same armor.

I'm looking to read some alternative rules that would foster more diversity in armor selections.

While I can understand that historically some armors where better than other, I find it too bad that the system tends toward a narrow selection of slightly more optimal armors.

While I haven't totally eliminated the 'problem' I tried to alleviate it a bit in my homebrewed system:

Relevant info About Armours:

Armour / price / AC bonus / max Dex bonus / armour check pen. / arcane failure

LIGHT ARMOURS
Leather / Padded armor 5 gp / +2 / +6 / -0 / 10%
note: All Medium and Heavy armors include padded armor underneath.
Studded Leather / Ring Mail 15 gp / +3 / +5 / -1 / 15%
Chain Shirt / Scale mail 100 gp / +4 / +4 / -2 / 20%

MEDIUM ARMOURS
Hide / Leather scale 25 gp / +4 / +4 / -3 / 25% /
note: May not take the run action.
Chainmail / Banded mail 200 gp / +5 / +3 / -4 / 30%
note: May not take the run action. Use this row for chain shirt over studded leather.
Breastplate / Cuirass 400 gp / +6 / +2 / -5 / 35%
note: May not take the run action. Use this row for unusually thick hide armors.

HEAVY ARMOURS
Chain Hauberk 300 gp / +6 / +2 / -6 / 40%
note: -10 ft. speed (-5 ft. if small). May not take the run action. Use this row for double-layered chainmail.
Half Plate 600 gp / +7 / +1 / -7 / 45%
note: -10 ft. speed (-5 ft. if small). May not take the run action. Use this row for breastplate over chainmail.
Full Plate 1500 gp / +8 / +0* / -8 / 50%
note: -10 ft. speed (-5 ft. if small). May not take the run action. * A full plate specifically tailored for the wearer has a Max DEX bonus of +1.

ACCESSORIES
Vanguards and Greaves 200 gp / +1 / as armor -1 / -2 / 10%
note: May be worn over any Light or Medium armors.

'findel

[Kirth Gersen]

Laurefindel's houserules echo mine insofar as every armor within a category (medium, heavy) has the same total AC bonus + max Dex bonus. In fact, ALL of his armors have the same total (+8); my medium and heavy armors total slightly higher (+9 and +10, respectively)* to make up for the reduced mobility. In any event, our efforts towards ameliorating the problem have trended in the same direction.

*So my "half-plate" has a +8 armor bonus, +2 max Dex bonus (+10 total); as compared to full plate with +9 armor, +1 max Dex (+10 total).

[Darkwing Duck]

One of the things I'd like to see added to the game is exotic armors and exotic armor proficiencies (with a heavy emphasis on exotic==regional) with special abilities added.

We could get rid of exotic materials such as darkwood and, instead, have exotic armor (read:regional armor) that is a unique armor type with all the qualities of darkwood.

As an amateur hoplologist, I've always felt that 3X's failure to represent regional differences in armory was a giant loss.

[Maezer]

I am starting to see some of the UC armors filtering into play as mechanically they are competitive to the breastplate/full plate.

For Medium:

Kikko Armor - via mithril gets down to 0 AC penalty, with +9
combined AC.

For Heavy

Both Tatmi-do and O-yoroi armor have a combined AC of +10 to match full plate and let the more dexterous character in heavy armor effectively trade touch AC for flat footed AC as they wish.

[Spall]

Magnu123 wrote:

The only reason to wear other armors than breast/full plate would be to get a lower ACP or Max. Dex. bonus.

Except breastplate and full plate have a dex bonus and ACP that is as good or better than the lesser competition. If the choice actually worked like that (trading dex bonus and ACP for more AC) then at least it would be a choice.

Maezer wrote:

I am starting to see some of the UC armors filtering into play as mechanically they are competitive to the breastplate/full plate.

For Medium:

Kikko Armor - via mithril gets down to 0 AC penalty, with +9
combined AC.

For Heavy

Both Tatmi-do and O-yoroi armor have a combined AC of +10 to match full plate and let the more dexterous character in heavy armor effectively trade touch AC for flat footed AC as they wish.

Well the kikko armor is similarly trading a point of flat footed AC for a point of touch AC as well (as compared to a breastplate). These three types are an example of armor that statistically are at least relevant after level 4. There's a niche, small though it may be, for a high dex, heavy armor character.

I think adding new features to the lacking sets is the only way to make them worthwhile. Simply tuning the dex bonus up/down might work, but I'd rather not use that as the tool as it will result in adding some very high dex bonuses to very heavy armor like splint mail and still limits the niche to very high dex users who want touch AC. I'd rather let them trade total AC for other benefits. Something like allowing the AGILE modifier from the APG only on some of the lesser armors, adding a +X AC to crit confirmation rolls, a little DR vs specific physical attacks, etc.