Raging Swan Press
|
I just started a new series of posts on my blog in which I look back to the good old days and dig out some of Gary Gygax's best quotes about a variety of gaming topics. I thought I'd start with something controversial so I started with gunpowder!
If you are interested, you can see the first post here.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Unfortunately, Gygax is talking out of both sides of his mouth on that one. Consider:
--
It's worth noting that the quote you cite rejects gunpowder weapons for NPCs and specifically monsters; the examples I list are all PC-driven. That's a relic of the different rules that PCs and monsters played under in early editions (orcs had no ability scores, etc.). 3rd edition (and by extension Pathfinder) standardized things, so some sort of reconciliation is needed.
That's a pretty uncharitable response.
Murlynd's history, as a character in Greyhawk, is pretty unique and limited. And due to his disinterest in using gunpowder and its effect on a campaign, Murlynd's revolvers were treated as magic items.
The crossover with Boot Hill in the 1e DMG is more of a case of showing what the AD&D system can do in a campaign, not what Gygax preferred in his own campaign.
And the blasters from Barrier Peak? Challenging to master with the flowsheets, limited in charges, and with some dangers in operation. Not exactly a permanent addition to a campaign as much as a cross-genre lark.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
When a general rule is stated, it is not "uncharitable" to point out numerous exceptions to it. Even if the exceptions have specific caveats or unique case histories, any one exception invalidates an absolute rule.
The single initial quote, taken out of context, suggests "Gygax didn't want guns in D&D." I'm pointing out that the case was really "Gygax didn't want guns all over D&D, but he made a number of exceptions, especially for PCs, including the following..."
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
When a general rule is stated, it is not "uncharitable" to point out numerous exceptions to it. Even if the exceptions have specific caveats or unique case histories, any one exception invalidates an absolute rule.
The single initial quote, taken out of context, suggests "Gygax didn't want guns in D&D." I'm pointing out that the case was really "Gygax didn't want guns all over D&D, but he made a number of exceptions, especially for PCs, including the following..."
Putting it that way would have been a lot more charitable than saying he was talking out of both sides of his mouth.
|
Raging Swan Press
|
It's worth noting that the quote you cite rejects gunpowder weapons for NPCs and specifically monsters; the examples I list are all PC-driven. That's a relic of the different rules that PCs and monsters played under in early editions (orcs had no ability scores, etc.). 3rd edition (and by extension Pathfinder) standardized things, so some sort of reconciliation is needed.
You make a good point about the various "relics" of guns in AD&D. While I think the examples you list are more cross-overs than permanent features of the game as he saw it, Murlynd is an excellent example of an exception.
That said, the text I quoted from was published in 1987, well after the DMG and Barrier Peaks came out. It is perfectly possible that between the DMG and Role-playing Mastery that Gary's position changed. After all the last part of the quote has Gary saying that the time spent dealing with [firearms] and then having them [the PCs] reject them would be wasted.
|
Raging Swan Press
|
And the blasters from Barrier Peak? Challenging to master with the flowsheets, limited in charges, and with some dangers in operation. Not exactly a permanent addition to a campaign as much as a cross-genre lark.
We played that module last year updated to 3.5. After some experimentation, we sold the lot! We couldn't get our heads round those acursed charts!
I'm quick to jump in, not to be a dick, but because a lot of people seem to have the view that Gygax descended from Mount Doom with a set of stone tablets given to him by Odin that contained all the immutable True Secrets of Gaming. The thing is, Gygax wasn't the only contributor (people forget Arneson, who was ALL ABOUT mixing in a lot of tech -- see Blackmoor), and even Gygax himself allowed a lot of exceptions if he thought they would be fun.
Neglecting the exceptions would provide a lot of the "Paizo better get rid of guns or I'll throw a tantrum" people with more ammunition [pun intended] than is perhaps warranted, given the full picture.
As it is, the precedent seems to be for each campaign and even each PC to be handled differently.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
"A DM only throws dice for the noise they make." -- Gary Gygax.
I'm quick to jump in, not to be a dick, but because a lot of people seem to have the view that Gygax descended from Mount Doom with a set of stone tablets given to him by Odin that contained all the immutable True Secrets of Gaming.
No doubt there are a lot of people like that, and I find them annoying too. The opposite tendency - the one to take a potshot at the man for no reason or as a corrective measure to deflate his image or make the stars fall from his fans' eyes - just as annoying.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
"A DM only throws dice for the noise they make." -- Gary Gygax.
That reminds me of the time I played in a game run by Ed Greenwood at PaizoCon last year, and while we had 2nd Ed characters with pretty boss stats, we made very few dice rolls and had a great time... which was precisely Ed's point in the game: that it can be fun with less focus on rules and dice and more focus on just playing.
That reminds me of the time I played in a game run by Ed Greenwood at PaizoCon last year, and while we had 2nd Ed characters with pretty boss stats, we made very few dice rolls and had a great time... which was precisely Ed's point in the game: that it can be fun with less focus on rules and dice and more focus on just playing."A DM only throws dice for the noise they make." -- Gary Gygax.
But killing PCs through roleplaying alone is just being a jerk. Hence, dice! :)
it can be fun with less focus on rules and dice and more focus on just playing.
Sure -- story hour can be a LOT of fun, but over the length of a campaign, it starts to feel like you're living on bread. Eventually I start craving a burger, too. I'm not advocating an Atkins diet by any stretch of the imagination, but strict Pastafarian gaming sort of loses its allure if you don't add some dice rolls to the mix.