Or we could... I dunno... vaccinate, maybe? Or are people still afraid the vaccine might contain those eeeeevil autism viruses?
Do they vaccinate for chicken-pox now?
When I was a kid (early 80s) they'd just send us all to play together.
Do they vaccinate for chicken-pox now?
When I was a kid (early 80s) they'd just send us all to play together.
They do.
Or we could... I dunno... vaccinate, maybe? Or are people still afraid the vaccine might contain those eeeeevil autism viruses?
Nah, better for everyone to bring those childhood diseases back from the edge of eradication.
Sometimes the foolishness is mind-boggling...
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I will attempt not to try to see the reasoning about this, I am sure that the people doing this have an explanation. However, I can't think of a single one that makes any sort of sense.
My kids have been vaccinated from this disease. That's what vaccines are for. Why would you infect your child, potentially causing them much harm and leave them potentially scared when a simple vaccine will prevent infection and at worse might give them a slight fever or cough for a few days.
People astound me.
I will attempt not to try to see the reasoning about this, I am sure that the people doing this have an explanation. However, I can't think of a single one that makes any sort of sense.
My kids have been vaccinated from this disease. That's what vaccines are for. Why would you infect your child, potentially causing them much harm and leave them potentially scared when a simple vaccine will prevent infection and at worse might give them a slight fever or cough for a few days.
People astound me.
I think the idea is that, if the disease isn't fatal like chicken pox, and getting it once typically makes you immune for the rest of y our life (typically), that vaccinating against it is pointless and will do little but to force the virus to evolve into a more virulent strain. Same reason we use antibiotics sparingly and are constantly having to ramp them up.
I could, and probably am wrong though. It's my girlfriend who is the microbiologist, not me.
Vaccinations are awesome -- they're the reason that half our kids don't die in childhood anymore. But to my mind, vaccinating against chicken pox seems kind of pointless. OK, so you get it as a kid, you itch a lot, and then you're over it. You don't die of it, or become crippled for life. Why inject an infant with additional chemical agents solely to overcome a bit of itching later on?
If you could vaccinate every possible carrier in the entire world, and thereby eradicate the disease entirely, it would make sense, but I don't see that as an attainable goal.
Vaccinations are awesome -- they're the reason that half our kids don't die in childhood anymore. But to my mind, vaccinating against chicken pox seems kind of pointless. OK, so you get it as a kid, you itch a lot, and then you're over it. You don't die of it, or become crippled for life. Why inject an infant with additional chemical agents solely to overcome a bit of itching later on?
If you could vaccinate every possible carrier in the entire world, and thereby eradicate the disease entirely, it would make sense, but I don't see that as an attainable goal.
Has anyone ever died of chicken pox directly?
If so, what percentage of children do? What would that percentage need to be to warrant vaccinating against something?
These questions are in response to yours but directed at anyone participating in this thread.
Has anyone ever died of chicken pox directly?
If so, what percentage of children do? What would that percentage need to be to warrant vaccinating against something?
According to the CDC, about 50 kids per year in the U.S. Statistically, that's pretty close to 0% (<0.00002%). Your odds of winning the lottery are comparable. To be worth it, in my mind, given the risks and costs associated with it, the proportion of people either dying or receiving irreperable harm would have to be a lot higher than that. Off the top of my head, 1 in 50,000 (.002%) seems reasonable, which is a hundred times higher.
Do they vaccinate for chicken-pox now?
When I was a kid (early 80s) they'd just send us all to play together.
They can Vaccinate for chicken-pox, but as a rule they do not do so here in the u.k.
They didn't exactly send me to play with infected kids when I was a kid, but there where many oppotunities to get infected. Shesh, that disease itchs.
Chief Technical Officer
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OK, so you get it as a kid, you itch a lot, and then you're over it.
Thirty-some years on, I don't really remember the itching, but I do remember that I got to stay home from school for a week and watch some mighty fine cartoons and game shows.
The concern, while not backed by anything more scientific than voodoo, is that the stuff thats in with the vaccines cause autism/whatever else scary someone else said on the radio. Having a pox party i suppose in one way to get around that, but aren't the chicken pox vaccines they have no good for life?
I wonder if it occurred to any of those folks what would happen if someone handed one of those lolipops to an adult who hadn't had chicken pox as a kid.
Vaccinations are awesome -- they're the reason that half our kids don't die in childhood anymore. But to my mind, vaccinating against chicken pox seems kind of pointless. OK, so you get it as a kid, you itch a lot, and then you're over it. You don't die of it, or become crippled for life. Why inject an infant with additional chemical agents solely to overcome a bit of itching later on?
If you could vaccinate every possible carrier in the entire world, and thereby eradicate the disease entirely, it would make sense, but I don't see that as an attainable goal.
Has anyone ever died of chicken pox directly?
If so, what percentage of children do? What would that percentage need to be to warrant vaccinating against something?
These questions are in response to yours but directed at anyone participating in this thread.
As to direct deaths, yes.
Chickenpox in children becomes a serious illness about 2-4% of the time. Usually it settles in the brain and you get viral meningitis. The main treatments for this include supportive care and hope. Chickenpox in adults is a much more serious illness and tends to become life-threatening much more often.
As to the standard, non-serious cases... Scarring is generally present in most cases. I have a big pit on my nose right in the 'witch wart goes here' spot. My sister still has eye scarring. As in chickenpox scars on her eyeball 19 years after-the-fact.
Also, re-exposure to the chickenpox virus causes shingles. Which in standard cases is a month of debilitating pain but often lasts much, much longer. Years is not unheard of.
So, yes, chickenpox really can be serious business.
Having a larger proportion of the population vaccinated for a disease also indirectly protects immune-compromised people who are at greater from the disease but can't be vaccinated themselves (because of allergies, pregnancy, chemotherapy, radiation therapy, or other medical reasons)—it makes them less likely to ever be exposed to the disease (herd immunity).
Having a larger proportion of the population vaccinated for a disease also indirectly protects immune-compromised people who are at greater from the disease but can't be vaccinated themselves (because of allergies, pregnancy, other medical reasons)—it makes them less likely to ever be exposed to the disease (herd immunity).
That's a pretty good point, Paizo ghost that I don't recognize.
I'm a bio-terrorist.
When I've had beans for lunch.
She gave birth to me didn't she?
I got the chicken pox when I was 20. I wish I'd contracted it as a kid. I had those stupid things everywhere, even the soles of my feet. I ran a fever of 104 degrees one day, and had visual and auditory hallucinations due to it. Not fun.
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Having a larger proportion of the population vaccinated for a disease also indirectly protects immune-compromised people who are at greater from the disease but can't be vaccinated themselves (because of allergies, pregnancy, chemotherapy, radiation therapy, or other medical reasons)—it makes them less likely to ever be exposed to the disease (herd immunity).
That is why I support the government subsidizing vaccinations for illegal immigrants as it makes everyone better off.
They should have their kids play ookie mouth with each other.
Having a larger proportion of the population vaccinated for a disease also indirectly protects immune-compromised people who are at greater from the disease but can't be vaccinated themselves (because of allergies, pregnancy, chemotherapy, radiation therapy, or other medical reasons)—it makes them less likely to ever be exposed to the disease (herd immunity).
Gah, lets see if I can recall my animal health and immunology lectures.
While Herd immunity does mean that those who cannot be immunised are less likely to be exposed to the disease and catch it, it also increases the protection for every one in the population.
Firstly, vaccination is not always effective. It does tend to be highly effective, but there is a probabilistic risk(however small), that even after vaccination, you can develop symptoms after exposure. So the smaller the reservoirs of infection the lower the risk of exposure, the smaller the total number of cases.
Thanks to natural selection and the speed of virus reproduction and spread, development of new strains tends to be rapid. This leads to a reduction in the efficacy of a vaccine(this is why we need new seasonal flu vaccines every year). The higher the rate of vaccination, the less likely it is that any given infection will spread to new hosts. There by slowing the over all rate at which new strains emerge.
I think that everything, but its been seven years since I last really read up on the subject, so I've probably missed out a bunch of other stuff.
In every such discussion, there is always someone who points out the fabulous advantages of HERD IMMUNITY! In situations like the swine flu, tons of people were screaming at people who had doubts about getting vaccinated that YOUR DECISION MEANS YOU MURDER OLD PEOPLE AND CHILDREN WHO COULD HAVE BEEN PROTECTED BY HERD IMMUNITY!!!
The sad, sad truth is: If you do not have around 80% coverage, you have ZERO (0) herd immunity. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
So, either start working on a bill to make vaccines mandatory (also giving the state the right to inject stuff in people's bodies if they feel like it), or give up the oh so pretty herd immunity idea, because a moron can figure out you're not getting to 80% if it's optional. Even in Sweden, a nation well known for its unquestioning loyalty to the state and a HUGE media campaign á la the above argument, no more than 50% coverage was reached. I seriously doubt any other western country could get above that level, more or less no matter what the situation was.
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In every such discussion, there is always someone who points out the fabulous advantages of HERD IMMUNITY! In situations like the swine flu, tons of people were screaming at people who had doubts about getting vaccinated that YOUR DECISION MEANS YOU MURDER OLD PEOPLE AND CHILDREN WHO COULD HAVE BEEN PROTECTED BY HERD IMMUNITY!!!
The sad, sad truth is: If you do not have around 80% coverage, you have ZERO (0) herd immunity. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
So, either start working on a bill to make vaccines mandatory (also giving the state the right to inject stuff in people's bodies if they feel like it), or give up the oh so pretty herd immunity idea, because a moron can figure out you're not getting to 80% if it's optional. Even in Sweden, a nation well known for its unquestioning loyalty to the state and a HUGE media campaign á la the above argument, no more than 50% coverage was reached. I seriously doubt any other western country could get above that level, more or less no matter what the situation was.
In the UK we do this for a bunch of diseases, really easily.
I could probably write some of this in caps but it wouldn't become more true.
We do it through the school system. Every student gets injected with a bunch of stuff. Seeing as school is compulsory, the coverage is pretty ace.
Currently we do:
diptheria
tetanus
whooping cough
polio
some meningitis'
measles
mumps
rubella
papilomavirus (cervical cancer)
pneumococcal
We have school vaccinations too, and people take them. Seasonal flus with big whoop money for various shady american companies is not the same thing.
In every such discussion, there is always someone who points out the fabulous advantages of HERD IMMUNITY! In situations like the swine flu, tons of people were screaming at people who had doubts about getting vaccinated that YOUR DECISION MEANS YOU MURDER OLD PEOPLE AND CHILDREN WHO COULD HAVE BEEN PROTECTED BY HERD IMMUNITY!!!
The sad, sad truth is: If you do not have around 80% coverage, you have ZERO (0) herd immunity. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
So, either start working on a bill to make vaccines mandatory (also giving the state the right to inject stuff in people's bodies if they feel like it), or give up the oh so pretty herd immunity idea, because a moron can figure out you're not getting to 80% if it's optional. Even in Sweden, a nation well known for its unquestioning loyalty to the state and a HUGE media campaign á la the above argument, no more than 50% coverage was reached. I seriously doubt any other western country could get above that level, more or less no matter what the situation was.
Which is why I am in favour of universal vaccination programs.
Those resistant to MMR vaccinations where so damaging, because they effectively destroyed the near complete coverage that existed. Cases of measles, mumps, and rubella have all rocketed since this begun, and the evidence still points to the idea that vaccination, or mercury causes autism, as being laughable.
Rag on Sweden all you want for their 'unquestioning loyalty to the state', but if you do so, please don't forget to mention that by almost every measure it is, other than its crappy weather, one of the best places in the entire world to live, by almost every social and economic measure. Only, two things stop me from moving to either Sweden or Norway in a flash. The fact I had a hard enough time learning English, that the idea of learning additional languages scares me to death, and the fact that my other half doesn't want to up sticks and move.
We're à nation where the religious are in à serious minority, which has been shown to correlate pretty well to high quality of life worldwide. Even so, not all is perfect. We have lost our absolute top positions on most of those scales by now, and a few of them scare us silly. Education, for one. We pay massive taxes. If someone wrongs us, we generally have no recourse. But really, what would prevent your immigration here is a ban on work immigration.
We're à nation where the religious are in à serious minority, which has been shown to correlate pretty well to high quality of life worldwide. Even so, not all is perfect. We have lost our absolute top positions on most of those scales by now, and a few of them scare us silly. Education, for one. We pay massive taxes. If someone wrongs us, we generally have no recourse. But really, what would prevent your immigration here is a ban on work immigration.
I maybe wrong, but last I checked, as an E.U. passport holder, I can rock up, get a job, and register for Registration of right of residence with the Swedish Migration Board.
No work permit or residency permit required.
my understanding is that it is also much easier for me to move to Norway.
We have school vaccinations too, and people take them. Seasonal flus with big whoop money for various shady american companies is not the same thing.Sorry, I'm probably being a bit dense, I don't understand the point you're making here.
America has more than 80% coverage for serious diseases. Flu is not a serious disease.
America has more than 80% coverage for serious diseases. Flu is not a serious disease.We have school vaccinations too, and people take them. Seasonal flus with big whoop money for various shady american companies is not the same thing.Sorry, I'm probably being a bit dense, I don't understand the point you're making here.Flu can be a serious disease. The standard seasonal flu is not, because mostly people have degree of immunity from exposure to similar viruses. A new strain can be deadly. See the 1918 Flue pandemic.
A modern version probably wouldn't be as bad, since we now have more capability to treat the symptoms, but it would still be devastating.
and a higher standard of general health.
However disease does not have to be deadly to be destructive. A serious enough flu epidemic can do significant economic harm, as large work forces are effectively destroyed for several weeks, as the disease works its way through them.
I have a unique stance on vaccinations. Get them if you want them. If not, then don't. But don't cry fowl is something crappy happens. As far as a chicken pox vaccine is concerned? I say WTF? I got exposed to it a half dozen times growing up and didn't get it until I was 16 (1989). There was a rather humorous phone conversation between my mother and a dermatologist because she wouldn't believe me when I said I had chicken pox. The itching sucked, I got a nice little crater scar right in the middle of my forehead. Other than that, I was out of school for a week playing nintendo. Does the scarring bother me? No.
As far as flu shots? I'll never get one, nor will I ever have support having them forced on my kids. If we get sick, we get sick. We'll get over it. I have had more success fighting off colds and flu by taking a combination of Vitamin C, Echinacea, and a tall glass of Orange Juice together, 2 or three times in a day. Until that changes, I say posh on the chicken pox vaccine. Personally, maybe I am a bioterrorist, because I think the chicken pox pop is shows some ingenuity to how chicken pox was handled when I was kid.
I got the chicken pox when I was 20. I wish I'd contracted it as a kid. I had those stupid things everywhere, even the soles of my feet. I ran a fever of 104 degrees one day, and had visual and auditory hallucinations due to it. Not fun.They were not hallucinations...what did you see?
They were indeed hallucinations. I thought my girlfriend and friends of mine were there. Some I thought I saw, others spoke to me from the other room. Later I confirmed with them that they had not been there.
This is what I don't get. I can see thinking that some diseases aren't a big deal and there's no need to bother being vaccinated. But, unless you've bought into the vaccine paranoia, why would you think it's better to deliberately get the disease than to be vaccinated?
In the case of the chicken pox there's a few reasons.
1) The disease isn't that bad
2) In the 70s? they had a vaccine for it. Everyone got the vaccine and they were fine. Then 20 years later the vaccine wore off, and people started getting chicken pox as adults. Dad wound up in the hospital that way
I guess people are worried that the new vaccine will have the same problem down the road.
I can't find any confirmation of that. The vaccine was first developed in the 70s, started being widely used in Japan and Korea in 1988 and in the US in 1994. It's all the same vaccine. As far as I can see it wasn't widely used in the 70s, nor was there a previous version.
Can you point me to some other info? Is it possible you're thinking of a different disease?
I've heard it before myself but don't have any collaboration beyond that.
I just saw a reference to another potential problem with these pox lollipops.
These are just being licked and sent by random strangers (through social networking sites) with chicken pox. No guarantees they don't have anything else nasty. Many of which might survive the shipping process better than the chicken pox will.
Yep, they're also being flagged as a potential hepatitis vector.
