As suggested smartly by a fellow messageboard-dweller, I've found the "Ink & Quill" supplement... a non-pathfinder book featuring various rulings and even prestige classes entirely dedicated to making a profit and adventure of Written and Performed masterpieces...
Unfortunately, it's giving my brain quite a wallop, So, I'm posting here in hopes that the Pathfinder community can provide some more concise insight. Are there any good, known threads for this subject? And can anyone answer the following preliminary questions:
1) How many pages of literature will 1 ounce of black ink produce, if used to write manuscripts by means of a simple quill?
2) "Ink and Quill" mentions a 25gp cost for Binding ye average blank spellbook, yet the blank spellbook cost remains constant through either pathfinder and DnD, at a 15gp price for a 100 page book. Is this a typo, thus? EDIT: Here's a quote...
The initial cost for the wizard’s spellbook includes the book’s cover, pages and a 25 gp fee for binding the book.
... Once those two questions are out of the way, we can estimate the most Basic material cost for writing Any non-magical, simple, parchment-paged book.
I now present to the community the following excerpt, derived from "Ink & Quill" on pages 29-30, under 'Draft Scholarly Work', a Scholar PrC class skill:
Draft Scholarly Work (Ex): A scholar may create one book every three months, not to exceed two per year. The book does not require her undivided attention; however, any absence greater than two weeks increases the time necessary to write the book by one month or the duration of the absence, whichever is longer. The scholar chooses a specific topic for the book, including a working title and brief summary of the book. Unlike fictional works, writing a scholarly text requires extensive amounts of research, costing the scholar gold pieces equivalent to 30 minus her Knowledge ranks in the particular field of study. For example, a scholar with nine ranks of Knowledge (the planes) writes a book about the Abyss. The cost of writing the book is twenty-one gp. (30 - 9 = 21). When book is complete, the player rolls a Knowledge check in the specific field, modified by any circumstance bonuses awarded by the GM for the book’s innovate topic and title. The book generates income equal to the character’s scholar level multiplied by her modified Knowledge check. For instance, a 3rd level Scholar with eleven ranks in Knowledge (local) and an 18 Int authors a work called Pub(lic) Knowledge, a review and critique of local taverns. Because of the clever title, the GM awards the player a +2 circumstance bonus to her Knowledge check. The player rolls a “10” on her Knowledge check. Adding all of her bonuses, the work receives a final score of twenty-seven. [10 (her roll) + 2 (her circumstance bonus) + 11 (her ranks) + 4 (her Int modifier) = 27]. The book generates 81 gp. The scholar must retain a record of all her works including their titles, field of study and the modified Knowledge check result.
This is an example of a process used to create a Scholarly work, that I was hoping to reproduce in Pathfinder. It is especially important to note the exact Costs and Income calculations. To derive a Simple summarization of this process would be extremely beneficial.
Taking the pathfinder prestige class of "Pathfinder Chronicler", we see the special prerequisite that they must "have authored or scribed something (other than a magical scroll or other device) for which another person (not a PC) paid at least 50 gp." As far as I can tell (and please do correct me if wrong), there are 3 ways to go about doing this:
1) Completely Role-playing it out, where any player wishing to scribe a book about their most recently fascinating endeavor is GM-ruled to have their book sell for 50gp or more
2) Pretend the Profession(Scribe) skill is more akin to a Crafting skill, setting a 100gp goal for the final product (and selling it for Half).
3) Actually deriving a skill-based calculation from the excerpt above, where players are rewarded for skill point allocation, creativity, And a unique career choice that can Benefit others.
...So; Before I take another shot at it with a clear mind... I invite ye, o' mighty community... Have at!
EDIT: To be clear... I'm hoping someone out there can provide a Pathfinder-translated system or algorithm of the above. I'm further hoping that someone Else out there has read "Ink & Quill", and can provide other formulae and/or similar houserules.
Eh, too complicated.
I recommend profession(scribe). The PrC prereq should be roleplaying, I think.
That means you'll get 135-500 pages from an ounce of ink. If it were me, I suppose I would ask the author to roll a d10+4 to determine her average pages/mL (per writing session?), multiply by ~27, then go with that.
For example, suppose your author rolls a 4 on her d10. That means she's getting [(4 + 4) * 27 =] 216 pages per bottle of ink.
Having said all that, as a dedicated author in my own game, I have to say that nearly all of the rules you've quoted seem a bit overly technical. While I don't see any reason they couldn't apply to Pathfinder (except for the Chronicler, who might require some customization), I would tend to agree with Cheapy that Profession (Scribe) might be worth looking at.
In addition to Profession (Scribe) being simpler, I happen to like how its mechanics automatically allow writing to be a royalty-oriented system not unlike what authors actually use today. That is, your character writes a single book, then makes her weekly Scribe rolls to determine her income regardless of whether she's actually written anything recently or not (since the book will presumably still be selling long after its completion).
Thank you so much for the ink calculations. ^_^ Personally, I'd round it off to 200 pages just to be Safe, and keeping the price a constant 1 gp per 25 pages of parchment... But again, thank you.
Second Question: How many pages can a Scribe scribe in a week, and does this reflect their income in any way? Does it matter?
Unless otherwise specified, a Parchment-paged book in pathfinder is likely going to cost 5gp + 5gp per 50 pages. In all likelihood, Books beyond the 100 page mark will instead be made into multiple Volumes. But what determines how many pages a scribe needs to use, in order to create, say, an Epic Poem worth ____gp ?
Alright. As for the Profession(Scribe):
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Using "Profession(Scribe)" alone:
Pros:
- Simple - By far the easiest approach. By whatever means you, your character, or your GM deems fit, your character gains a set amount of income based entirely on their profession skill.
- Material-cost friendly - Your character does not need to worry about the added burden of parchment costs and ink.
- Less time Consuming - One roll says it all.
Cons:
- Unspecific - The Pathfinder Chronicler PrC requires that a single NPC has paid at least 50gp for a Single work you've created. How does a mere Profession check justify this, without GM intervention? Might as well Blackmail your victim into buying your book... And their life.
- Content Doesn't Matter - Whether you're attempting to craft a multilingual dictionary, a scholarly journal about blacksmithing, an epic poem, or a historical study, The Content does not alter the Income: A Barbarian attempting to write fine poetry will make as much as a Bard Historian writing about an old era, if their Profession(Scribe) skillchecks result the same.
- Ignorant of costs - Fact: Paper and Parchment is surprisingly expensive. Fact: So is ink.
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Using "Profession(Scribe)" similarly to a Craft Skill:
Elaboration: The quality of the final product is determined by a DC which is directly proportionate to the product's Final Price. You pay the full price for the Book(s) and Ink needed to craft your product, and add that cost to its final value. Calculations yet to be determined.
Pros:
- Slightly more realistic - You are handling a set Component Cost for every book, and the ink used, in your fabrication process. These costs are Added to the market value of the final product.
- Able to Aim for a Market Price - Handling Profession(Scribe) as if it were a Crafting skill means you'd be able to set a specific goal (DC) which directly reflects the value of your product. You then work the following week(s) in order to complete your book. Creating a book worth 100gp and convincing an NPC to buy it Automatically qualifies you for Pathfinder Chronicler.
Cons:
- Content Still Doesn't matter - The main reason why a Tertiary system is needed; Even treating your Profession(Scribe) as a Crafting skill does not justify increases or decreases in value due to the Contents of the product.
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I'm a knowledgable guy. If I'm writing a book by my Own experience ( a knowledge check ), or about another person's Profession or Craft, I want a determinable difference. If I'm writing a Combat manual, I want it to be priced differently than a Multilingual Dictionary. If I'm writing an epic tale worthy of being considered a Performance, I want it to be priced differently than a gardening manual, or a golem-building manual.
This is why I offer the above Exercept from "Ink & Quill", which (although complicated) seems to come close to my goal. I'll continue working on it.
* For Anyone Following This Thread *
I've posted my proposition (Work in Progress) for a system that involves creating skill-based books. It can be found: Over Here
I love world building, but breaking down costs of every tiny thing, like the cost of ink to produce a given tome - that's just plain anal, and offers no real verisimilitude, only useless information. It's for an RPG, thus it's all very much 'hand-wavium'. Real costs of crafting is not what D&D/Pathfinder has ever been about - there should be no effort to duplicate the costs of real things for D&D things, that's not a worthy goal in world building. So your entire line of questions, seems utterly silly - and if you discover the costs of these things, don't share them, few are interested, nor will find any use for this data.
I love world building, but breaking down costs of every tiny thing, like the cost of ink to produce a given tome - that's just plain anal, and offers no real verisimilitude, only useless information. It's for an RPG, thus it's all very much 'hand-wavium'. Real costs of crafting is not what D&D/Pathfinder has ever been about - there should be no effort to duplicate the costs of real things for D&D things, that's not a worthy goal in world building. So your entire line of questions, seems utterly silly - and if you discover the costs of these things, don't share them, few are interested, nor will find any use for this data.
...But creating a fascinating book, in Pathfinder, has no strict ruling; Nothing but the Gm's discretion of what the GM considers "interesting", and the process of making it.
In Pathfinder as it stands, Non-fiction is naught but fluff; Libraries only have function (by RAW) for performing untrained knowledge checks. The rest is vague suggestion.
When you pick up a book, it's just a book. It's exceedingly expensive due to the price of Parchment in pathfinder's setting. Average citizens would have no use.
...But what if an Archive containing a country's History actually Meant something, both in Role play terms, and in Pathfinder Rules?
What if Libraries were worth building, and even making publicly accessible at some point, because some obscure little wizard decided to Uplift the world into an age of wisdom.... Through a book?
What if he could make Farms work a little bit faster? Smiths craft a little bit better? Bards perform a little bit Grander?
All thanks to a Town Library, that could exchange books and sets with Other towns, and cities.
Anyways.
This is where it starts; The basics and the Costs. I think "Ink & Quill" was about the closest product to come to that dream. And so, I intend to plan it out and make it an In-game reality. Get the costs down, and you can figure out how to work around them.
Some players go out of their way to invent in-game Steam engines far before their time; Others invent the mother of all Merchants, and dominate the financial world; Others still invent weapons of mass destruction, working towards goals of immortality and enslavement of the Material plane.
I will invent Utopia. And it all starts with a book.
Responded in the other thread
Thank you, and I read. ^_^ I'll respond when I have the right mindset to continue.
Currently, I still have to work on the whole use of Profession(Scribe), and the Third step in my plan... But I do enjoy your ideas of Manuscripts, before Publications into a Book. ^_^