Homebrewing invocations and Infinite spells use

[Majesticmoose]

So I asked a while back, but can't find my own thread, and I phrased it poorly, so I'll try again.

When designing things like invocations and infinite/at-will spell uses (whether supernatural, spell like, etc.) what are some of the pitfalls to look out for when ranking them?

I'll offer up my prime example: if you were to offer telekinesis as an invocation, what level of invocation would it be, and why?

for those that don't know about invocations, they are basically at-will spell like abilities. the least ones are spell levels 1 and 2, and often combine aspects of multiple spells into a single one.
Least are levels 3 and 4.
greater are levels 5 and 6.
Dark are typically odd, as they range anywhere from level 5-9, but are often unique abilities that do not replicate a spell.

I know that as magic items go, 5uses per day is the same in price as at-will, but there is also some "common sense" applications to this, haste being one of the most obvious.

I welcome ideas, especially about telekinesis, but any feed back is appreciated. Thanks all.

[Kalyth]

While many invocations did infact have mutliple effects most if not all also came with limiting effects as well.

Most Invocations were also not your "Power House" Spells. Haste as an invocation would have been grossly overpowered.

I would put Telekinesis at a Greater Invocation if it was limited to only one of the options. If it gave the ability to use all of the TK options (violent thrust, etc...) I would make it a Dark Invocation. I would also tweak it somewhat in either case adding some unique twist or limiter.

[kyrt-ryder]

Each level of Invocation equates to an approximate spell level. That should give you a good starting point. (As such, a Telekinesis Invocation would most likely be a Greater Invocation.)

[kyrt-ryder]

Kaylith... no offense... but haste at will would be overpowered? The hell?

Haste very quickly becomes a part of every combat. Either the Sorcerer or Bard is dropping it all the time, or the people who use haste are getting it in items.

[Majesticmoose]

And a power that's haste like is a good example of what I'm asking about. At a cetain level in the game haste is just a factor of combat. So would unlimited uses of it break the game anymore than 5+ uses?

An example of an invocation I always thought was really powerful was a lesser invo that allowed at-will dimension dooring AND left a mirror image behind where you jumped away. That seemed very powerful in it's own way, especially because a wizard/sorc would only have dimension door at that level.

I personally think telekinesis is a great spell, but not so good that as an invocation it needs to be dark. but besides it's raw utility is there some aspect of spamming that power tha makes it "broken" or problematic?

[kyrt-ryder]

Not in my opinion. Could make a good entry into Master of the Unseen Hand (from Complete Warrior I think, not sure though.)

[Gilfalas]

Majesticmoose wrote:

An example of an invocation I always thought was really powerful was a lesser invo that allowed at-will dimension dooring AND left a mirror image behind where you jumped away. That seemed very powerful in it's own way, especially because a wizard/sorc would only have dimension door at that level.

It was Major Image, not Mirror Image and it only lasted ONE round and was only able to imitate you reacting 'appropriately' to combat. Also your D Door range was short, as opposed to long for the regular spell.

That said, doing it at will IS extremely handy. But remember that in nearly every case, Warlock invocations are both selfish and flavorful.

Selfish in that they pretty much were only able to help or affect the Warlock himself or hurt an enemy. They were nearly no mass effect abilities and no buffs or things to help another.

Flavorful in that they were deeply steeped in the concept of the Warlock and the invocations carried many limitations to match that flavor. Making a proper invocation is hard unless you keep that in mind.

So as an example, while a Haste like invocation is possible, it would probably only affect the Warlock themselves, and perhaps give concealment if they moved during that round as they 'blurred at speed' from one place to another.

After all, if Warlocks could do anything a wizard could do, there would be no need for wizards.