Echo Spell + Spell Perfection

[3Sheets2theWind]

Okay, so I looked at some other posts with regards to echo spell and I think I have found a loophole... Spell Perfection.

If you cast your "signature spell" and can apply a metamagic feat to it on the fly, then you can continuously keep throwing echo spell on it again and again as it says you can apply any metamagic feat to it on the fly that does not bring its level above 9.

This sound right?

[Stefan Hill]

Apply the old adage "If it sounds too good to be true..."

Also apply the newer adage "I'm I being a dick and will I destroy the GM's mind/game."

You should find the answer no problem.

[noretoc]

3Sheets2theWind wrote:

Okay, so I looked at some other posts with regards to echo spell and I think I have found a loophole... Spell Perfection.

If you cast your "signature spell" and can apply a metamagic feat to it on the fly, then you can continuously keep throwing echo spell on it again and again as it says you can apply any metamagic feat to it on the fly that does not bring its level above 9.

This sound right?

Sorry but by reading I would say no. Echoing spell does not let you cast the spell and retain full memorization as if you had not cast the spell. It lets you cast the spell and retain enough to cast it ONE additional time. I would treat that as not having it prepared any longer, and instead just having the ability to cast it again once. Thus the metamagic feat would not work on it.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

This has been faq'd. Echoing trick only works once.

[Bobson]

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

This has been faq'd. Echoing trick only works once.

I don't see that in the FAQ - am I just missing it?

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Bobson wrote:

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

This has been faq'd. Echoing trick only works once.

I don't see that in the FAQ - am I just missing it?

Not sure. One of the devs chimed in on a thread of this exact topic a while back.

[3Sheets2theWind]

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Bobson wrote:

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

This has been faq'd. Echoing trick only works once.

I don't see that in the FAQ - am I just missing it?

Not sure. One of the devs chimed in on a thread of this exact topic a while back.

Spell Perfection

You are unequaled at the casting of one particular spell.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 15 ranks, at least three metamagic feats.
Benefit: Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.

Note the wording...
"Whenever" you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level.

Key word "Whenever".

Still echoing the spell gives you the "ability" to cast is again. Argue all you want it is black and white... should it need to be changed it should be worded differently...

[Lathiira]

Ravingdork discussed this very question not too many weeks ago. IIRC the answer was no, Spell Perfection doesn't let you start an infinite echo chain. Each spell that is effectively "created" as an echo "knows" it's an echo, and cannot be echoed again.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Lathiira wrote:

Ravingdork discussed this very question not too many weeks ago. IIRC the answer was no, Spell Perfection doesn't let you start an infinite echo chain. Each spell that is effectively "created" as an echo "knows" it's an echo, and cannot be echoed again.

Echo spell is badly worded. The Dev's admit that. Lathiira worded it well. An echo know's it's an echo.

[Ralof]

I'd say that wizards can cast one more time and classes with knowledge of the special spell (sorcerer bard) can cast it a 3rd time due to due to the fact that it doesn't fade from memory. House rule though.

[Ravingdork]

Lathiira wrote:

Ravingdork discussed this very question not too many weeks ago. IIRC the answer was no, Spell Perfection doesn't let you start an infinite echo chain. Each spell that is effectively "created" as an echo "knows" it's an echo, and cannot be echoed again.

Yep. The devs and I have since closed this little loop hole. If you look at the Echo Spell feat's description in the PRD you will note that the wording has changed since its initial hardcover publications.

Gotta love stealth errata.