Help me vs. a meta-playing paladin

[Snorter]

PhineasGage wrote:

Maybe its me, but I make my players ASK to roll sense motive. As in, I roleplay in a manner which conveys I'm shifty, or has inconsistencies, etc., and they ask to sense motive.

So, I suppose the difference really is that I see it more as an active skill (say like using perception to search at a dead end wall because I think there there must be something there)

I do it the opposite way round; roll Perception/Sense Motive/relevant Knowledge skills/etc for the players, before they interact, then play out the encounter based on those results.

If no-one rolls well, I'll play the NPC straight, and answer any queries re Sense Motive, with 'You see no reason to suspect him.", without having to break the fourth wall, with the clatter of dice and waiting for the player to search for a skill bonus, before we can all resume speaking.*

If someone scores high enough, I'll describe the NPC as being jumpy when they walk into his room, tell one of them he saw the NPC hurriedly slip an object out of sight, inform another that the guy's accent seems to slip for a moment before recovering his usual manner. Or anything else that makes sense given the skills involved.

This allows me to get into character, and decide what sort of clues could realistically be let slip, and avoids the situation where an NPC is played with a poker face, but then has to rapidly screw up halfway through the conversation, because someone jumped in with a high roll.

*Occasionally, I do have to roll a few extra checks during the conversation, if they keep the NPC talking for long, or veer off into unexpected territory. However, the goal is to reduce this to a minimum, and step into the NPC's shoes with as little fuss as possible.

[Snorter]

There's a few threads on the go on similar subjects, and they do reappear regularly enough that I do wonder;
Do those GMs who insist on their players making specific requests, for specific skills at specific moments, actually have jobs, families, etc?

I can only assume they're unemployed, still at school, or have a giant trust fund, so they can play for 16 hours a day, and afford the time to waste half the session on the following;

"The butler steps forward, and tells you 'I have an important message..'..."
"Can I have a roll?"
<roll>
...<wait for player to find his skill bonus>...
"I got 16, do I notice anything?"
"No. As he was saying, I have an important message.."
"What about me? Can I have a roll?"
<roll>
...<wait for player to find his skill bonus>...
"I got 17, do I notice anything?"
"No. As I was saying, I have an important message.."
"What about me? Can I have a roll?"
<roll>
...<wait for player to find his skill bonus>...
"I got 14, do I notice anything?
"No."
"Are you sure?"
"Yes"
"Dude, I already rolled 16 and didn't get anything."
"Oh, I wasn't listening."
"As I was saying, I have an important message.."
"What about me? Can I have a roll?"
<roll>
...<wait for player to find his skill bonus>...
"I got 18, do I notice anything?"
"No. As I was saying, I have an important message.."
"What about me? Can I have a roll?"
<roll>
...<wait for player to find his skill bonus>...
"I got 13, do I notice anything?"
"No."
"Are you sure?"
"Yes"
"Dude, I already rolled 16 and didn't get anything."
"Oh, I wasn't listening."
"As I was saying, I have an important message....."

[Alwaysafk]

Snorter wrote:

There's a few threads on the go on similar subjects, and they do reappear regularly enough that I do wonder;

Do those GMs who insist on their players making specific requests, for specific skills at specific moments, actually have jobs, families, etc?

I can only assume they're unemployed, still at school, or have a giant trust fund, so they can play for 16 hours a day, and afford the time to waste half the session on the following;

"The butler steps forward, and tells you 'I have an important message..'..."
"Can I have a roll?"
<roll>
"I got 16, do I notice anything?"
"No. As he was saying, I have an important message.."
"What about me? Can I have a roll?"
<roll>
"I got 17, do I notice anything?"
"No. As I was saying, I have an important message.."
"What about me? Can I have a roll?"
<roll>
"I got 14, do I notice anything?
"No."
"Are you sure?"
"Yes"
"Dude, I already rolled 16 and didn't get anything."
"Oh, I wasn't listening."
"As I was saying, I have an important message.."
"What about me? Can I have a roll?"
<roll>
"I got 18, do I notice anything?"
"No. As I was saying, I have an important message.."
"What about me? Can I have a roll?"
<roll>
"I got 13, do I notice anything?"
"No."
"Are you sure?"
"Yes"
"Dude, I already rolled 16 and didn't get anything."
"Oh, I wasn't listening."
"As I was saying, I have an important message....."

ME: "Can I have a roll?"

DM: "yes"
ME: <rolls a 20>
ME: "SWEET!"
DM: -sigh- "THERE'S NOTHING TO NOTICE!"
ME: -holding Barbarian character sheet- "What makes you think my Greatsword knows how to use Sense Motive?"

Sometimes you have to rely on the players to move the story :D

[mcbobbo]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

If you fail your sense motive check Peasant 2 is supposed to look EXACTLY like peasant 1 as far as you're concerned.

Towards those who disagree with this statement, do you find it another 'straight jacket' like alignment? Something that's telling you how you have to play your character?

[BigNorseWolf]

(*Buldar Gate 2 reference)

Is it? I don't think I've played that one.