First of all; Do they exist? Do rules in any book from Paizo claim the existence or guidelines behind Creating spells greater than the ninth level?
Second; How would you, if you were a GM, go about it, and is it Fair? Only certain classes grant spells that follow the full 9 levels; a Bard, for example, could be a 20th level spellcaster and still cast spells that can be dispelled more or less easily by other high-tier casters, because they are only 6th. But then again, those Are mostly lower level spells in comparison to the awe and power of those granted to high-tier Witches.
Thirdly, the Specifics;
I want to bring it up to my GM, one day. I Really do miss Rituals, and loved the idea of them from 4th edition you-know-what. I also somewhat enjoyed the concept of Epic Spell Seeds, from a certain Other edition of you-know-what.
So, instead of 10th level spells in the Traditional sense of standard-action casting and minor components, I was wondering if anyone had ideas for ways to conceive a Ritual System for spells that would be of even Greater effect than those of level 9.
I haven't thought about it in detail; Whether multiple persons can partake and Aid in such a ritual, offering a portion of their own Caster Levels and spellcraft checks ( So that even Summoners and Bards can use them )... Or whether a 19-20th level Wizard would be able to conceive them all on his own, for an effect on par with Wish and Miracle, perhaps even Greater. a 19th level Cleric, as an example, Would normally gain access to a 10th level slot, had their normal progression continued beyond 9th.
Ritual magic would be a new tier of magic; a truly Epic effect. Where as normal magic has many ways of manipulating energy (Or whatever you or your GM considered the 'Magic Particle', or Source...) to produce desired effects... Rituals focus on aiming this process towards Existence itself; Rewriting the rules of reality, if only temporarily, to allow effects similar to dangerous Wishes to come to pass, then attempting to sew back up the rift. Some might take tens or hundreds of years of meticulous planning, to exactly determine what kind of metaphysical material is capable of producing such a Rift. Most Rituals probably entirely use Souls as a type of fuel, and may eliminate a spellcaster's very existence from the multiverse if performed improperly...
Anyways. Just throwing it out there. I'm sure similar ideas have been conceived, and posted. Any advice on where to go with this, or if it should solely be left to the GM's discretion?
1. No, they don't exist in Pathfinder. At current, Pathfinder has no additional rules for play beyond 20th level. But, check out the 3E Epic Level Handbook. Also, this link:
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicSpells.htm
2. Spell level has nothing to do with dispelling. Only caster level matters. The DC for a 20th level Wizard to dispel a Charm Person cast by a 20th level Bard is DC 31.
3. I know very little about 4e, so I don't know anything about Rituals or how you could adapt them to Pathfinder, but since Pathfinder is more or less backwards compatible with 3.X (with some modification) I would think you could use Spell Seeds with little modification.
Also, since 3e Epic Spells are only based off CL and skill ranks, Bards, Magi, and Summoners or even Pallys or Rangers could take Epic Spell Casting provided they also took Improved Spell Capacity to get 9th level slots.
1. No, they don't exist in Pathfinder. At current, Pathfinder has no additional rules for play beyond 20th level. But, check out the 3E Epic Level Handbook. Also, this link:
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicSpells.htm2. Spell level has nothing to do with dispelling. Only caster level matters. The DC for a 20th level Wizard to dispel a Charm Person cast by a 20th level Bard is DC 31.
3. I know very little about 4e, so I don't know anything about Rituals or how you could adapt them to Pathfinder, but since Pathfinder is more or less backwards compatible with 3.X (with some modification) I would think you could use Spell Seeds with little modification.
Also, since 3e Epic Spells are only based off CL and skill ranks, Bards, Magi, and Summoners or even Pallys or Rangers could take Epic Spell Casting provided they also took Improved Spell Capacity to get 9th level slots.
1) Thank you.
2) Sorry about that. -_-;; ... Just go ahead and pretend I wrote "Because they have an awesome spell like Mage's Disjunction at their disposal!"
3) The rituals were set-in-stone effects, that varied, but were rituals that anyone could help with, and that even a Barbarian could use with a ritual Scroll (Like Spell completion items, but for Anyone). They typically had material costs, and large casting times; They were the equivalent of several 3.5 spells, with similar components.
...And, nice. Thank you for the corrections. ^_^ that was a fugging hell of an amateur blunder on my part <_<
Might I suggest a start with 'The Book of Magecraft' from 2E's Birthright setting? There are a category of spells in there called Realm Spells that might be just the thing you're looking for, at least for a starting point.
Although I would point out that the amount of wealth available to characters has DRASTICALLY increased, so if you use the listed costs as a base, I would multiply by no less than 10.
You'll need to work out the number of assistants on your own though, that's not so much a part of the Realm spells. For me, a rule of thumb is one primary assistant per spell level, and each primary requires 2 secondaries. A 'primary' needs to have only 1/2 the CL of the 'main caster' (who must be able to cast 9th level spells, so 9th level would be a 'primary'), and secondaries only require the ability to cast at all, so long as they're in the same tradition (spontaneous vs prepared, bard vs sorcerer and so forth). Add 2 levels to each for cross tradition.
Just some thoughts.
Also, it's not just a matter of accumulating XP: you have to do truly astounding things (astounding by 20th level standards!) in order to win even quasi-deific status.
...Unless you just want to get drunk, and touch a Starstone... *cough* Cayden Cailean *cough*...
But, alright. ^_^ That's two ideas for books. Personally, I wanted to *attempt* this Without the whole Deities and Demigods involved. In fact, that would probably be one of the most Lethal rituals, in My mind; trying to ascend to godhood.
...Like trying to grow a colony of God-bacteria; Take a swab of "This Caster's Soul", and smearing it all over a gigantic glass plate called "The Multiverse"... And hope it grows into something Divine. (Not likely.)
...Anyways. ^_^ Will see if I can find The Book of Magecraft, and Tome of Magic, anywhere online...
Would highly appreciate details!
Also, I enjoy the rule of thumb for the assistants.