Building a Flowing Monk - suggestions


Advice

Grand Lodge

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Grooving on the concept (but willing to listen to others) and am wondering what the best build for levels 1-4 would be? Assume PFS build.

Wis needs to be a solid 16 I am guessing, as the best way to capitalise on some of the maneuver options.

Grand Lodge

Well, considering this is what I'm doing, I will give you some possible ideas as to where to go. This is really just what I am doing, not the best way to do it.

Human Flowing monk of the sacred mountain

Str: 10
Dex: 18 (human +2 here)
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 16
Cha: 7

feats:
Human: agile maneuvers
HD: ki-throw
Bonus: Improved Trip

You could easily go with a better Cha at level one, instead of int, but I was wanting to be able to use skills. At this point, I have AC 17, 10 hp and a +6 to trip, +7 with my masterwork kama. Plus, I get to reposition people after a trip, which makes melee characters happy.

Next level I get another 9hp (toughness), +1 natural armor, and the flat footed AOO thing for flowing monks.

At level three, the plan is to take combat reflexes so I can trip fools on their turn. Level five, I'm taking vicious stomp so I can try to hit them when they go down. Level six bonus feat is weapon finesse, so I can actually hit people.

In that time, I plan on grabbing an amulet of mighty fists, so I can hopefully enchant it with the agile enhancement. Other than this I haven't really got any idea as far as weapons, other than a whole mess of tanglefoot bags to deal with fliers. After level six, I'm probably going down the Janni style path, so I can full attack to hit/trip/aoo/hit/hit. That's my hope, at least.

Again, I don't know if this is the best way to do it, but at this point that is the plan.


I would say DON´T take Agile Maneuvers at Level 1, and DEFINITELY take Weapon Finesse if you have a DEX heavy build. Waiting till 6th level to grab Weapon Finesse is absurd, most all of your attack will be suffering a -4 effective penalty until that point, i.e. you will be attacking like a weakling Commoner.

I suspect Harte035 isn´t familiar with the distinction, but since Trips are delivered via weapons, including Unarmed Strike, you don´t need Agile Maneuvers to use DEX on your Trip attacks, Weapon Finesse works just fine: and applies to all normal attacks (with Finesse Weapons, such as Unarmed Strike). Taking Agile Maneuvers makes no sense because the only benefit it offers vs. Weapon Finesse is that it applies to Grapples, Bull-Rushes, etc, i.e. maneuvers not normally delivered via (Finesse) Weapons... But Harte035 isn´t taking any Feats to actually be good at those types of Maneuvers, so I see absolutely no point in his early selection of Agile Maneuvers.

The Agile Weapon enhancement is OK, but it overlaps with Weapon Finesse - If you get Weapon Finesse first (which I recommend), there is no point, and if you get Agile Weapon enhancement first, but pick up Weapon Finesse later, your investment in Agile eventually is wasted. Since using your DEX modifier on all attacks from Level 1, instead of having ZERO attack bonus, is a really nice thing, that´s the route I recommend.

Combat Reflexes can be nice eventually, but having the opportunity for more than 1 AoO isn´t that common especially at low levels, ESPECIALLY if you don´t have a Reach Weapon, which it doesn´t seem like you do.

Actually, that is very good advice: even if you plan on using Unarmed Strike most of the time, which makes sense as a Monk since I don´t think there is many Monk Reach Weapons (although there probably is now in Ultimate Combat), simply holding onto a non-Monk Reach Weapon is incredibly useful because it doesn´t impede your Unarmed Strike Flurries but gives you an extra opportunity for an Attack of Opportunity vs. enemies moving thru your expanded Reach area - and that AoO can be a Trip. If you find a Monk Reach weapon, you can now Flurry against both opponents in your normal Reach AND within your extended Reach Weapon area - and don´t forget you can 5´ step at any point... meaning you can maximize Full Attack/Flurries vs. more enemies.

Eventually, with alot of AoO´s, and a high speed from being a Monk, you may well want to consider Combat Patrol, which works extremely well with expanded Reach via a Reach Weapon (and Enlarge Person = 20´ Reach).

I believe there is some Feat that let´s you treat your God´s Favorite Weapon as a Monk Weapon, I´m not sure if that requires multi-classing in Cleric or Inquisitor, but both of those are more than viable as dips in my opinion, with the benefit of Domain(s) and Spells which incidentally use WIS, your 2nd favorite stat as a DEX-focused Monk.

Grand Lodge

Ah, shoot. Should have looked into that. That is very good advice, especially since I decided to pick up a weapon. I'm glad you pointed that out, since I have been a little iffy on what to do with the character and was hoping for some advice myself.

Also, the flowing monk loses fast movement in favor of additional AC (+1 per adjacent enemy up to wisdom modifier).

Grand Lodge

Coool.

Thanks guys, anything more?


I have a guy in my party playing a Flowing Monk of the Sacred Mountain. He took the Crane Style feats (which are super easy to get even without being a Monk of Many Styles). My GM is having second thought about letting him do all of that together because his AC skyrockets from round to round (as long as he doesn't move), AND he can deflect one attack per round.

He is super awesome at not getting hit and tripping enemies like there's no tomorrow. His only problem is that he can't hit anything worth a damn, even when he flurries. If he focused more on Dexterity, like you are, then this might not be problem.

Grand Lodge

I think I like keeping my evasion so it will be straight flowing monk.

I will like spend a 5 in for 4 stats (for 14 in each) and then use my human bonus to boost to boost Dex to 16. It will leave me a 10 in Int and Cha.

Human feat: Weapon Finesse
Level 1 feat: (likely) Improved Trip
Level 1 Monk Bonus feat? TBD. Maybe Dodge?

I could drop strength to 12 and take Dex to 17 but I'm not sure its worth the repeated hit to damage I'd take on every hit until level 4 when I can boost it to 18.

Alternatively I can up Wis to 15 with little hassle and take Panther Style AND Panther claw right at level 1, with Combat Reflexes being bought with the monk bonus feat.

By level 2/3 I would have ALL the Panther style feats locked down.

Shadow Lodge

Quandary wrote:
The Agile Weapon enhancement is OK, but it overlaps with Weapon Finesse - If you get Weapon Finesse first (which I recommend), there is no point, and if you get Agile Weapon enhancement first, but pick up Weapon Finesse later, your investment in Agile eventually is wasted. Since using your DEX modifier on all attacks from Level 1, instead of having ZERO attack bonus, is a really nice thing, that´s the route I recommend.

I'm sorry, but I don't quite think you know what you're talking about here.

Agile Weapon enhancement:
Agile (Melee Weapon Special Ability)
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Price +1 bonus
Description
Agile weapons are unusually well balanced and responsive.
A wielder with the Weapon Finesse feat can choose to apply
her Dexterity modifier to damage rolls with the weapon in
place of her Strength modifier
. This modifier to damage is
not increased for two-handed weapons, but is still reduced
for off-hand weapons. The agile weapon enhancement can
only be placed on melee weapons that are usable with the
Weapon Finesse feat.
Construction
Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, cat’s grace

Without Weapon Finesse, Agile is useless.

Also, the flowing monk I worked up also took crane style, and it is quite difficult to hit.


Old post but always worth reading about. I am/have made a flowing monk for 3rd level and this is what im doing...

STR 16
DEX 15
Con 12
Int 11
Wis 15
Cha 9

My race is Aasimir and my stats reflect a +2 to wis and a +2 to cha stats rolled were 16,15,12,13,11,7, so they were much better than average.

Flowing Monk Archetype, taking trip instead of reposition technique.

Crane Style For 1st lvl feat, along with Improved trip for bonus feat, and combat reflexes for 3rd lvl feat( you will see why soon)

So at 3rd LVL my AC is looking 19-20 when fighting defensively, (crane style gives +3 instead of +2 to AC, 3 ranks of Acrobatics gives another +1 dodge bonus when fighting defensively, +2 from Dex, and +2 from Wis and a +1 to +2 if fighting multiple enemies, these dont count if only fighting ranged.) What is neat is that for the most part this is all dodge AC so most of it is kept against touch and flat footed.

My offense when Flurry is at a total of +2/+2 when fighting Defensively( +1/+1 Naturally and +3/+3 with Str but -2/-2 for Fighting Def, Crane Style brings the negatives down form -4 to -2) So its not too hard to hit someone.

The best part is that I can currently trip enemies and when they are tripped it is easier to hit them. at 5th lvl ill take vicious stomp so every time i trip someone Attack of Opportunity!!!, oh and b/c of Flowing monk if I hit with my Attack of Opportunity they become flat footed until the end of my next turn, making it even easier to hit them. so Although I only get +3/+3 to hit at that lvl, They get -4 for prone and more for flat footed..... :D


Snake Style works really well with flowing monks you get bonus attacks when they miss,something you should be making happen. Snake Style is good but everyone has it now in my experience and you can negate hits anyway as a class ability so in some ways WANT toget hit so you can negate it and hit back.

Word of warning ask the DM if the adventure path will allow you to be useful. Against many large and monsterous foes you will just be unable to redirect them.

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