I recently got a Tumor Familiar on one of my characters, and while looking up what extracts would be useful with it I came upon this combo and unless I am mistaken the potential for it is a little startling
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: none; Spell Resistance: no
You must hold an elixir, infused extract, poison, or potion in hand as you cast this spell. The held substance drains from its container into a magical sac in your body. While the spell lasts, you can deliver the substance with a mere touch. To do so to an opponent, you must make a successful melee touch attack. If you hit, the substance takes effect immediately, despite any onset period, and that opponent receives the normal saving throw (if any) against the substance. If you miss, the substance remains in the magical sac for you to use later.
Target: you
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
You cause your own skin to peel off your body and animate as a magical creature you control. You may project your consciousness to your animated skin or return it to your actual body as a standard action. When your consciousness is in your body, you are helpless (except for transferring your will to your skin, or dismissing the spell).
Your possessed skin is identical to you in all ways, except the following: It has only half the number of hit points you had at the time you cast the spell, and cannot be healed above this maximum; construct type, traits, and immunities; Str 3, Con —; DR 10/piercing or slashing; and compression (as the universal monster ability). Your skin can take any actions you could normally take in your own body (such as to fight or cast spells).
When your skin leaves your body, your body’s hit points drop to 0. Your body cannot heal damage naturally while you have no skin, nor do spells that cure hit point damage work on your body; only regeneration (from a regenerate spell, ring of regeneration, the regeneration monster ability, or any other effect that can regrow missing limbs) or heal can regrow your skin and allow you to heal above 0 hit points.
If your body is regenerated before your skin returns to it, the skin dies and your consciousness returns automatically to your body. Your skin can be preserved with gentle repose and is suitable for any purpose that requires some of your flesh (such as a resurrection spell) or any magic or ritual that requires a creature’s skin.
When your skin returns to your body, you regain hit points equal to your skin’s remaining hit points. If the spell ends before you reunite with your skin or if your skin is killed while you are in your body, you remain helpless and at 0 hit points until your full body is restored to you (requiring powerful magic, as described above). If your body dies while you are possessing your skin, you die when the spell ends, regardless of how many hit points the skin has left. If your body or skin is slain with your consciousness in it, the spell ends and you are instantly killed.
So, it would seem to me that since you (or your familiar) can deliver Skinsend via Touch Injection, as long as you succeed the attack, a rather unfortunate target is suddenly and violently expelled from their own skin... and without a saving throw due to fact that Skinsend is a "you" target spell, and thus does not allow a save even if desired, or so it seems to me thus far.
Result: The target is immediately down half their hitpoints, and has a helpless body lying near them open to being finished off, and they cannot dismiss the spell unless they 1. Know the method of doing so and 2. Their initiative comes around to spend a Standard dismissing it.
Sanity check: Do I have this right? Can a 4th level Alchemist really reduce any beefy bad guy down to half HP and a Str of 3 with a single touch attack? Even if you house-ruled against RAW and allowed a save of some kind this seems surprisingly powerful.
If I'm correct, I think I need to try this at least once, even if it is ridiculous, and either hold someone's flayed body hostage or trick them into thinking the only way to fix the condition is to transfer their consciousness to their body....with a forthcoming coup de grace from a party member. I'd need to have a chat with any DM about this first out of respect, but it is has too much grotesque potential for fun to never try.
Thoughts?
So, it would seem to me that since you (or your familiar) can deliver Skinsend via Touch Injection, as long as you succeed the attack, a rather unfortunate target is suddenly and violently expelled from their own skin... and without a saving throw due to fact that Skinsend is a "you" target spell, and thus does not allow a save even if desired, or so it seems to me thus far.
Ok, if your rules interpretation is ever "You die, no saving throw allowed" you have the wrong interpretation.
1) I think you need to use the infusion discovery to affect someone else with your elixirs. The target you touch is normally an illegal target for "you" spells and the spell would dissipate without an effect otherwise.
2) You spells normally don't have a save because you're by definition voluntarily casting them on yourself. There's no rule for forcibly casting it on someone else, so the DM needs to rule here. Either thats 1) not possible at all or 2) The person gets a save, from the sound of it a fort save.
So, it would seem to me that since you (or your familiar) can deliver Skinsend via Touch Injection, as long as you succeed the attack, a rather unfortunate target is suddenly and violently expelled from their own skin... and without a saving throw due to fact that Skinsend is a "you" target spell, and thus does not allow a save even if desired, or so it seems to me thus far.Ok, if your rules interpretation is ever "You die, no saving throw allowed" you have the wrong interpretation.
1) I think you need to use the infusion discovery to affect someone else with your elixirs. The target you touch is normally an illegal target for "you" spells and the spell would dissipate without an effect otherwise.
2) You spells normally don't have a save because you're by definition voluntarily casting them on yourself. There's no rule for forcibly casting it on someone else, so the DM needs to rule here. Either thats 1) not possible at all or 2) The person gets a save, from the sound of it a fort save.
Nobody auto-dies in that scenario, they just get turned into a possessed skin-puppet with DR 10/Piercing or Slashing and construct traits, and the deadliness just comes from preparing the scenario accordingly. A caster being treated thus might respond with "whatever kid" and either undo it or take it as an advantage, but a big dumb fighter type foe may not have such a capacity.
1) Yeah, it says infusion is required in Touch Injection's description, so that comes as no surprise
2) I'm aware why personal spells aren't typically saved, but even beneficial spells explicitly give you the option of deciding to save against them when they are cast on you typically. The only reason I say anything about the potential of there not being a save is in the section regarding Magic and "Aiming a Spell" where it reads: "If the target of a spell is yourself (the Target line of the spell description includes “You”), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply. The saving throw and spell resistance lines are omitted from such spells."
Potions, and extracts accordingly I believe, use the subject of the substance as the "caster", so in this case it would seem that "you" aka the target is not allowed a save or spell resistance in the strictest reading I can manage. There may not be an explicit rule for casting those spells on someone else, but they substitute the terms accordingly in each step along the way such that it isn't necessary to it looks like.
Heh reminds me of the old transcend mortality trick.
Maybe in that it is opposite? ..."Transcend immortality"? /shrug
I'm not entirely aware of what said trick is, though its name heavily implies a way of not doing that whole dying thing