A very particular Reskinning question.

[deusvult]

So, I'm fully aware of the new reskinning rule. My question is whether a stance I'm inclined to take is really all that bad, despite being against the letter of the new rule.

here's the sitch: A regular fixture at my PFS OP circle is a father and daughter who play together. The daughter is 12 and enjoys the roleplaying but really doesn't find the minutae of rules to be engaging. Her character is a druid and has now gone through 4 chronicles with an animal companion re-skinned as a baby/pygmy (medium size) elephant.

I'm aware that this is now no longer legal but 'Peanut' (her AC, obviously) is one of if not the favorite thing of hers about playing pathfinder. Furthermore, she never actually USES the animal companion other than to place a miniature on the mat and to excitedly tell the other players about it. Seriously.. the one time I put peanut in danger and had the baddies opine about whether elephants taste like bacon, I thought she was nearly to tears.

So what can possibly become of enforcing the no reskinning rule? It would sincerely kill this girl's enjoyment of Pathfinder.. quite realistically turning off a future gamer (girl gamer, at that.. how many can we afford to lose! ;) In addition to rather pointlessly (imo) degrading the enjoyment of this player, her father would also certainly have a less than glowing view of such a crackdown. I mean seriously.. let the dude enjoy it while he can, his daughter is likely to be 'too cool' to play RPGs with her dad before much longer, in all likelyhood. What sort of soulless evil would cut that short?

A plan I think I'll suggest when we next meet is to call peanut a simple (but reskinned) non-combat pet, seeing as how she can't bear to expose it to any risk anyway. Use the lack of an AC (again, since she's not using it anyway) to take up a new spell domain and call it a happy (if still technically illegal) compromise.

[Sniggevert]

deusvult wrote:

here's the sitch: A regular fixture at my PFS OP circle is a father and daughter who play together. The daughter is 12 and enjoys the roleplaying but really doesn't find the minutae of rules to be engaging. Her character is a druid and has now gone through 4 chronicles with an animal companion re-skinned as a baby/pygmy (medium size) elephant.

There's an elephant AC from the Bestiary that's legal according to the Additional Resources. She should be good to go with those stats.

[Jiggy]

Or... just keep doing what you're doing because there's no need to make a 12-year-old girl cry.

If the rule's the same in 5 years and she starts cheesing, tell her she's not 12 anymore and she needs to play by the rules.

If an adult shows up with an illegal re-skin and says "But you let HER do it!" ask them if they're really going to complain about a special exception made for the aforementioned child. If they say yes, send them home.

[deusvult]

Sniggevert wrote:

There's an elephant AC from the Bestiary that's legal according to the Additional Resources. She should be good to go with those stats.

Hrm. So there is. I remember looking at the addtl resources and seeing a rule banning elephants for OP play when she originally wanted an elephant.. I guess that was for equipment rather than ACs. This is actually a happy relevation, no need to step on anyone's toes AND the rules don't get broken :D

[Drogon]

How come she can't have the one in the Bestiary? It's an elephant. And it's medium. If she doesn't care about the stats, she won't even notice if you make it "legal" will she?

Only possible issue is that, at 7th level, it gets large. But, by then she might *want* Peanut to get bigger...

[Dragnmoon]

Jiggy wrote:

no need to make a 12-year-old girl cry.

You have never played with me have you?.. I think I make everyone cry...;)

[Pirate Rob]

I may have seen a venture captain coup-de-grace a 10 year old's character with a wraith at a con last year. The kid crying was very sad.

[Feral]

There are mechanics in place for exactly this thing. There's no need for 'special case' reskinning.

Just tell her that her that elephant is starting to grow up and is medium now. If she gets to 7th she can opt to not have her elephant stay medium.

[Herald]

Dragnmoon wrote:

Jiggy wrote:

no need to make a 12-year-old girl cry.

You have never played with me have you?.. I think I make everyone cry...;)

That's not true, I just bit my tongue....

[cblome59]

deusvult wrote:

Sniggevert wrote:

There's an elephant AC from the Bestiary that's legal according to the Additional Resources. She should be good to go with those stats.

Hrm. So there is. I remember looking at the addtl resources and seeing a rule banning elephants for OP play when she originally wanted an elephant.. I guess that was for equipment rather than ACs. This is actually a happy relevation, no need to step on anyone's toes AND the rules don't get broken :D

I believe the ban was on purchasing an elephant to use as a mount. The AC version is reasonable.

[Kerney]

Quote:

So, I'm fully aware of the new reskinning rule.

I'm looking all over for said new reskining rule (AKA someone saying Micheal has made a desicion, not an 'of course it's illegal because Josh Frost said so years ago.')

Has the new decision come out yet?

[Michael Brock]

Kerney wrote:

Quote:

So, I'm fully aware of the new reskinning rule.

I'm looking all over for said new reskining rule (AKA someone saying Micheal has made a desicion, not an 'of course it's illegal because Josh Frost said so years ago.')

Has the new decision come out yet?

It's n the FAQ here

[sieylianna]

The rules of reskinning have been released. It has been over a month since mr. moreland announced that the VCs and staff would be looking at the Wild Rager archetype for its suitability for PFS. Has a decision been made on wild rager?

I don't think it belongs in any organized play. I can see the wild rager PC killing the poor 12 year old's pet elephant before turning to the druid herself.

[Dragnmoon]

sieylianna wrote:

I can see the wild rager PC killing the poor 12 year old's pet elephant before turning to the druid herself.

Won't someone please Think of the children!!!

[Githzilla]

sieylianna wrote:

The rules of reskinning have been released. It has been over a month since mr. moreland announced that the VCs and staff would be looking at the Wild Rager archetype for its suitability for PFS. Has a decision been made on wild rager?

I don't think it belongs in any organized play. I can see the wild rager PC killing the poor 12 year old's pet elephant before turning to the druid herself.

I was wondering what happened to that thread. It just seemed to fizzle out without any definitive answer.

[Lamplighter]

Githzilla wrote:

I was wondering what happened to that thread. It just seemed to fizzle out without any definitive answer.

It's been discussed; not sure when the answer will be made official, though. Soon?

[LazarX]

Scott Young wrote:

Githzilla wrote:

I was wondering what happened to that thread. It just seemed to fizzle out without any definitive answer.

It's been discussed; not sure when the answer will be made official, though. Soon?

Or possibly never. A lot of people can get themselves over-concerned on what seems to be a non-issue. I'm a strong believer in giving some allowances for the younger set, especially if the overall mechanics impact is zero.

The devs don't take themselves the job of table enforcement, that's the job of whoever's judging and their call as they see fit. As long as the rest of the table is happy with it, I don't see it as something to worry about, and the topic should just simply be allowed to pass.

[Dennis Baker]

Or possibly the answer is in the FAQ link the PFS campaign coordinator provided above.

[sieylianna]

Dennis Baker wrote:

Or possibly the answer is in the FAQ link the PFS campaign coordinator provided above.

If it is, it wasn't at the time I made my post.

Nope, I looked and it's still not addressed.

[Dragnmoon]

sieylianna wrote:

Dennis Baker wrote:

Or possibly the answer is in the FAQ link the PFS campaign coordinator provided above.

If it is, it wasn't at the time I made my post.

Nope, I looked and it's still not addressed.

Ogre was talking about the re-skinning rules not the Wild Rager rules

[lastblacknight]

A 12 year old girl? with a pet elephant? (that is purely flavour?)

I'd keep doing what you are doing, there is nothing to be gained by stamping on her fun. I'd make sure her dad knows that their may be an issue with some GM's at Cons (so he can prepare her for that).

and if the aforementioned bearded, cheeseweasel presents you with a re-skinned build that's abusing your trust - take them aside and tell them to grow up.

[Alexander_Damocles]

lastblacknight wrote:

I'd keep doing what you are doing, there is nothing to be gained by stamping on her fun.

And this here is my issue with the reskinning rule. If a GM can tell its not being done for mechanical benefit, and it lets the player have more fun, why stomp on it?

[Mark Moreland]

This isn't really a reskinning issue, as there are legal stats in the Bestiary for an elephant animal companion. Whether she uses the companion in combat or just for fun, there are stats for it she can legally use to preclude this entire discussion.

[lastblacknight]

Mark Moreland wrote:

This isn't really a reskinning issue, as there are legal stats in the Bestiary for an elephant animal companion. Whether she uses the companion in combat or just for fun, there are stats for it she can legally use to preclude this entire discussion.

For sure, but if we have a similar issue with a child (who is being introduced to the game) and with chance that someone wanting her 'talking/walking' sunflower. We can make a a judgement call right? (I'm not saying it happens often - but we can tell the difference between the 'going for cheese' power-gamer and little-somebody who is just learning and may be turned off our hobby for life).

[Shifty]

It's a kid, lets just give them their baby elephant, or oversized Hamster named George or whatever.

Some neckbeardy cheezemonkey tries the same stunt? Turn their AC into a My Little Pony or Care Bear until they 'get the message'

[Feral]

Rather than beg the campaign staff for special exceptions why not help the girl create a character that will allow her to do what she wants.

In the case of the elephant it's like Mark said, there are mechanics already for that. No reskinning needed.

If you have a child that wants a magical talking sunflower why not help her build a summoner?

[Sean Hanlin]

Also, as I've been through years of gaming and the point of the game is to have fun and at the same time grow our game. She's 12 and at her age it is understandable that she isn't about all the rules. Boring, lol. It is our job to help them enjoy the game. They will grow up and the rules will become more important as they understand how the whole game works. It is totally awesome that you even have this problem, a family that enjoys gaming together, that is a problem I'd like to have!!!!

[deusvult]

As mentioned now couple times I mistook OP's 'No elephant mounts' rule for a flat 'no elephants' rule and have since seen the error.

However I do enjoy reading the opinions on the larger issue.. this AC in question could just as easily been something else that WOULD have required reskinning (say a pony reskinned as a unicorn. think that couldn't happen?) and I feel the question is still worth discussing.

[Feral]

I also think most of you guys are drastically selling the emotional maturity of a 12 year old gear short. I think if you give this girl a chance she might surprise you.

Once again, if a child wants a unicorn help them build a summoner. An eidolon can do pretty much anything. There is no need for special reskinning exceptions. Use the tools available.

[Chris Mortika]

Feral,

I take your point, and commend your intent.

Having said that, the Summoner is in the Advanced Players Guide for a reason. It's not a simple class to play. I know several 7th-grade girls who'd be all over the Summoner and understand its rules, but they've had years of experience with D&D and Pathfinder. It's not a class I'd recommend for someone's first game, no matter their age.

[lastblacknight]

It's not a question of rules and legality (really - I am hearing what everyone is saying) honest.

It's kind of enough that 'we' [that is the experienced players, who have be playing for years now some of whom - like myself - even remember 2nd Edition] just give a little breathing room and space to children and new players (or as in this case older players and their children).

No child has cried at my table, and I would like to point out that age has remarkably little - I am sad to say - with maturity.

I'll leave it there, I think I have said more than enough on the subject.

[Feral]

The summoner isn't much more complex than the druid the girl already has.

In either case, it sounds like someone else handles the mechanics for her character.

[Michael Brock]

sieylianna wrote:

It has been over a month since mr. moreland announced that the VCs and staff would be looking at the Wild Rager archetype for its suitability for PFS.

Wild Rager will be banned in the next release of the Additional Resources. A rebuild will be allowed for players affected who have taken the archetype. I anticipate the next Additional Resources to be released in the next few weeks.

[Vinyc Kettlebek]

Feral wrote:

In either case, it sounds like someone else handles the mechanics for her character.

Before anyone helps new players build/manage a character, they should have a firm enough grasp of the campaign rules to make sure the new player’s character is completely legal.

[sieylianna]

Thank you very much.

[KestlerGunner]

This is the cutest thing ever. A baby elephant named Peanut? That's a 26 on the cute roll.

I would like to hear the story about the Venture Captain having a wraith coup de grace a 10 year old's character.