So I am making an oracle as a backup character, and I was looking for some optimization advice.
I've kind of looked things over and am debating on which are the most "Optimized" options for an oracle who would be primarily casting in combat - maxing out Charisma and spending feats on spell focus and other means to raise spell DCs as high as possible.
I'm going human to get the favored class bonus to help make up for one of the weaknesses the Oracle has over the Cleric.
My tentative stats are thus:
(My DM gave us an 18,16,14,12,10,8 stat array that we have to allocate to each stat with no floating.)
STR: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 8
Cha: 20
I'm waffling between dumping STR or dumping WIS. Encumbrance is a minor issue in my campaign, so it really depends on whether I'm wearing armor or not - which really depends on which Mystery I go with - which is where I want some advice. I may also dump INT if I end up dual-cursing, since I won't have as many skills to focus on.
I'm trying to decide between a few mysteries, and whether Dual Cursed is worth it.
To Dual Curse or not to Dual Curse
Near as I can tell, the Haunted Curse is probably the best curse to take if you're going to be completely focused on casting: Pulling things out of your inventory would not be as much of an issue for someone who is working with limited resources anyway - and doesn't need to reach for his inventory to just cast spells. The errata also negates components being one of the things affected by this curse. Gaining extra spells though is amazing as a primary spontaneous caster though, especially if it's good utility like Telekinesis.
From what I've looked through, most mysteries lack more than 7 revelations I care about anyway, so the big question boils down to whether I like the two extra revelations that Dual Cursed provides. And to me that really depends on how you interpret "it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed."
Do I get to see the number of the roll if it's the enemy for misfortune? Because that otherwise seems a little worthless. If I am allowed to see the number though, this could be one of the best revelations in the game.
As for the bonus spells, depending on the revelation, the lower level spells are all "meh"-worthy anyway.
Another question is what's the best secondary curse to take besides Haunted? You know, the one that doesn't progress past first level. Blindness and Deafness suck as a primary caster because the former prevents a lot of battlefield control, and the latter lowers my initiative. Lame is kind of... Lame. Tongues could be really bad if I end up getting a few language dependent spells.
So it comes down to Wasting - but that assumes that I won't be taking party face any time soon. But if I go dual cursed, skills are pretty much a sidelined class feature anyway...
The downside to this is that the bonus spell "Oracle's Burden" that I'm stuck with becomes essentially useless unless I take something like Deafness - but oh well.
The best mystery for a primary caster
I want the best mystery that lets me pull some battlefield control, letting me tread on the Wizard/Sorcerer role a little bit, while still doing what a divine caster does best, but with a little more emphasis on the debuffing spells that mess up the opponent.
I've kind of narrowed it down to Time and Dark Tapestry with an honorable mention for Lore
I'll start with Lore - I find it attractive for the obvious reasons:
1. Charisma replaces dex, letting me dump dex. I know it still doesn't affect my initiative, but that's a small price to pay for reducing MAD.
2. Be a Bard when it comes to knowledge skills. For some reason this role always seems attractive to me - I don't know why.
And that's it. Brain Drain is something I get with Dark Tapestry, and while I like Time Stop, lore makes a great candidate for an ACF that lets me replace the mystery spells.
I definitely would not take Dual-Cursed if I went lore, since skill points would be incredibly important for the mystery.
I don't think that Lore accomplishes my goals as a caster though as tempting as it is, so lets talk about Time and Dark Tapestry.
Dark Tapestry
What I like about it.
1. Black Tentacles, Feeblemind, and Insanity.
2. Cloak of Darkness lets me completely dump STR since it would replace my armor.
3. Interstellar Void does great damage, and is AMAZING after 15th level (though they do have to fail the save.) Doesn't seem to have any restrictions on what it affects besides the Cold descriptor either.
4. Free Self Fly Spell
5. Could stealth with the Rogue into situations where a Divine Caster might be useful in a duo.
6. Shapechanging forms that make melee powers a little less scary to use - and Cleric Spells involve a lot of touch spells.
The bad (From my perspective):
1. Redundancy with the Haunted curse with Reverse Gravity.
Time
What I like about it:
1. CONTINGENCY - on a divine caster.
2. Erase From Time is a great CC - though limited in number of uses.
3. Some Knowledge skill bonuses
4. Blink is to Time as Cloak of Darkness is to Dark Tapestry, though I think Cloak of Darkness is a bit better.
5. Free True Seeing
6. Dimension Door
7. Haste, as a Divine Caster
8. Reroll Initiative always, and reroll other rolls other times.
The bad
1. Besides contingency and temporal stasis, that's about it for the spells(Besides time stop which I may never get to). It does make Time a good candidate for a spell replacing ACF though.
2. What I mentioned about Blink vs Cloak of Darkness
3. Granted Powers seem to encourage melee a little more without giving the benefit of shapechanged form like Dark Tapestry has.
Conclusion
I looked through all the mysteries with a glance, and I may have missed a few things - if there are any mysteries that provide bonuses to Saving Throw DCs, I'm interested.
Besides that though, I think I am kind of stuck between Time and Dark Tapestry, unless someone has an amazing suggestion for another mystery.
Thanks for the input in advance!
I'll put my two cents in in support of the Heavens mystery. The Awesome Display revelation combined with colour spray and Heighten Spell means possible blinding and stunning of nearby foes well past the levels that spell is normally useful.Rainbow pattern and scintillating pattern at higher levels with that revelation are just nasty, as each creature in the area has your Cha mod's less impact on the total you can captivate.
I'll put my two cents in in support of the Heavens mystery. The Awesome Display revelation combined with colour spray and Heighten Spell means possible blinding and stunning of nearby foes well past the levels that spell is normally useful.Rainbow pattern and scintillating pattern at higher levels with that revelation are just nasty, as each creature in the area has your Cha mod's less impact on the total you can captivate.
I like that route, but I'd find it extremely tempting to go Gnome if I did choose that particular mystery. Then I'd fear that I'd end up as a one trick pony - which I want to avoid.
That said, it's a good trick - too bad it's a mind-affecting trick.
Also, how do you gain access to scintillating pattern?
Heavens was quite handy for disabling, yes, and I'd say the animal mystery is also fun - you get a mount/animal companion, charisma to AC, Natural divination for a few decent bonuses whenever you need them, and so on. The extra spells might not be ZOMGawesome, but I think they aren't too bad either.
If you Dual Curse... may I suggest you check out the Advance Options: Extra Curses download? Its cheap and gives 13 new curses plus a few curse feats...
I don't know if I"m aloud to discuss them without getting into trouble?
Some of the new curses include
Addict
Ailing
Amputee
Convulsions
Drunkard
Frail
Insomniac
Misshapen
Peaceful Soul
Provocative
Squeamish
Star-Crossed
Unbelievable
If you Dual Curse... may I suggest you check out the Advance Options: Extra Curses download? Its cheap and gives 13 new curses plus a few curse feats...
I don't know if I"m aloud to discuss them without getting into trouble?
Some of the new curses includeAddict
Ailing
Amputee
Convulsions
Drunkard
Frail
Insomniac
Misshapen
Peaceful Soul
Provocative
Squeamish
Star-Crossed
Unbelievable
Thanks for the options.
My DM however has restricted us to what he actually owns as physical books and a few additions that are included on the SRD, like Dervish Dancer.
He has CRB, APG, UM, and UC.
Near as I can tell, the Haunted Curse is probably the best curse to take if you're going to be completely focused on casting: Pulling things out of your inventory would not be as much of an issue for someone who is working with limited resources anyway - and doesn't need to reach for his inventory to just cast spells. The errata also negates components being one of the things affected by this curse. Gaining extra spells though is amazing as a primary spontaneous caster though, especially if it's good utility like Telekinesis.
Sure, if you want to give up your ability to use Metamagic Rods. Which you shouldn't want to do, Metamagic Rods are so good. So good. A one-step Reach Metamagic Rod is dirt cheap, and will let you cast 3 touch-range spells as Ranged Touch spells per day.
If you can get it out of your inventory.
30ft range on my Breath of Life, yes plzzzzzzzz.
I like that route, but I'd find it extremely tempting to go Gnome if I did choose that particular mystery. Then I'd fear that I'd end up as a one trick pony - which I want to avoid.The Fire Mystery plus the Dazing Spell feat makes for a lower level access to a reflex based CC spell. The gnome choice makes a great fit here with Pyromaniac racial trait.
A second trick, that works with all caster builds, would be to pick up the Extend Spell feat and use Sound Burst as a fort based CC spell. As a 3rd level spell, Extended Sound Burst, two rounds of stun on a small group of mobs is very nice. Add in the Heighten Spell feat and you can boost the DC nicely as you level up.
(spell focus Evo helps out the Sound Burst trick and the Burning Hands Dazing Spell trick, which is a nice thing)
Pop the Dazing Spell feat on Spiritual Weapon and you'll have a 5th level move action attack (small damage) that may daze people for two rounds on a will based save.
(there is a 1st level spell, Sun Metal from UC, that might be used to buff the warrior's weapon to yield a 1 round save or dazed effect on a will save, or you could do this with the Magic Stone spell)
By 8th level, you'll have access to a CC spell for all save options and will just need to realize which spell to use to attack the weak save.
These are some good tricks... Still not sure if I want to go fire for an early level 8 trick, but I like the idea of popping it on Spiritual Weapon.
Near as I can tell, the Haunted Curse is probably the best curse to take if you're going to be completely focused on casting: Pulling things out of your inventory would not be as much of an issue for someone who is working with limited resources anyway - and doesn't need to reach for his inventory to just cast spells. The errata also negates components being one of the things affected by this curse. Gaining extra spells though is amazing as a primary spontaneous caster though, especially if it's good utility like Telekinesis.Sure, if you want to give up your ability to use Metamagic Rods. Which you shouldn't want to do, Metamagic Rods are so good. So good. A one-step Reach Metamagic Rod is dirt cheap, and will let you cast 3 touch-range spells as Ranged Touch spells per day.
If you can get it out of your inventory.
30ft range on my Breath of Life, yes plzzzzzzzz.
I could just hold the one I use the most in my hand all the time...
For that matter though, my DM is the kind who doesn't think Rods are balanced.
He might give me one, and that would be the one I'd hold.
Otherwise, I'm stuck taking the feat anyway to make the item myself.
I could just hold the one I use the most in my hand all the time...
For that matter though, my DM is the kind who doesn't think Rods are balanced.
He might give me one, and that would be the one I'd hold.
Otherwise, I'm stuck taking the feat anyway to make the item myself.
Unless you are playing with house rules that change how crafting works, you don't actually need the metamagic feat, you increase the crafting DC for each requirement you are lacking by 5.
If your DM won't let you use metamagic rods, that's too bad. =/ But, wrt your single-rod plan, keep in mind that you can only use a single metamagic rod 3x/day. Holding one in your hand all the time is not really the same thing as being able to use metamagic rods, as you're tied into the one rod -- which is in turn tied to not only one metamagic feat, but also specific spell levels -- and you're stuck with it once you've expended its uses.
Also, you won't be able to threaten in combat, since you'll be holding this rod instead of a weapon. Not the hugest deal for a wizard, but a little annoying.
I could just hold the one I use the most in my hand all the time...
For that matter though, my DM is the kind who doesn't think Rods are balanced.
He might give me one, and that would be the one I'd hold.
Otherwise, I'm stuck taking the feat anyway to make the item myself.
Unless you are playing with house rules that change how crafting works, you don't actually need the metamagic feat, you increase the crafting DC for each requirement you are lacking by 5.
If your DM won't let you use metamagic rods, that's too bad. =/ But, wrt your single-rod plan, keep in mind that you can only use a single metamagic rod 3x/day. Holding one in your hand all the time is not really the same thing as being able to use metamagic rods, as you're tied into the one rod -- which is in turn tied to not only one metamagic feat, but also specific spell levels -- and you're stuck with it once you've expended its uses.
Also, you won't be able to threaten in combat, since you'll be holding this rod instead of a weapon. Not the hugest deal for a wizard, but a little annoying.
Eh... I could hold the rod in my left, and a mace in my right.
Also, it's not as if I CAN'T get things from my inventory - it just takes a standard action.
I'll put my two cents in in support of the Heavens mystery. The Awesome Display revelation combined with colour spray and Heighten Spell means possible blinding and stunning of nearby foes well past the levels that spell is normally useful.Rainbow pattern and scintillating pattern at higher levels with that revelation are just nasty, as each creature in the area has your Cha mod's less impact on the total you can captivate.I like that route, but I'd find it extremely tempting to go Gnome if I did choose that particular mystery. Then I'd fear that I'd end up as a one trick pony - which I want to avoid.
That said, it's a good trick - too bad it's a mind-affecting trick.
Also, how do you gain access to scintillating pattern?
My apologies. I was thinking of my oracle/sorcerer who will be getting scintillating pattern form the sorcerer side.
I did go gnome with that route, and spell focus illusion also. Yes, it's a one-trick pony, in that I've focused so much on illusions, but as one trick ponies go, it's the trickiest and most versatile.
Eh... I could hold the rod in my left, and a mace in my right.
Also, it's not as if I CAN'T get things from my inventory - it just takes a standard action.
You need a free hand to cast spells with somatic components AFAIK.
If it takes a standard action to get the rod, you can't cast a spell in the same turn, and 9 times out of 10 you're better off just casting the spell without the rod.
You need a free hand to cast spells with somatic components AFAIK.
Hmm... Makes sense, however, how do you explain the Divine caster with the mace and shield?
It might be a rule, but I'm sure I can argue with my DM about getting away with using both my hands like that.
If it takes a standard action to get the rod, you can't cast a spell in the same turn, and 9 times out of 10 you're better off just casting the spell without the rod.
I agree with you, but I'm not going to be in combat 24/7. Getting things out of my inventory outside of combat is a non-issue.
I understand that the whole inventory thing is a defect - it's supposed to be. But I think it's worth it to get free access to six spells not on the Oracle's spell list. Six pretty good spells at that (and my favorite cantrip no less.)
Hmm... Makes sense, however, how do you explain the Divine caster with the mace and shield?
Up to the DM to rule whether or not a character with a shield has a free hand or not, since arguably they aren't always holding the shield, it's strapped to their arm. There are many threads on the topic already, here and elsewhere, so I'll avoid derailing yours. Suffice it to say, the most common 'solution' is: "I pass my weapon to my shield-hand, cast my spell, then pass it back."
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Don't take the rod, take the feat.
If your DM doesn't like metamagic rods, then you might not be able to buy OR craft them. What do you plan to do if that occurs?
Take the feat.
Oracle's Burden is pretty much a waste of a spell in all cases. Haunted, Tongues, and Wasting are not particularly hindering in combat. Lame is only okay. Clouded Vision and Deaf are worth it... but just wait until you cast 3rd level spells and take Blindness/Deafness instead.
So, I don't recommend Dual Cursed.
On the question of curses, I'd ask what you plan to do with magic items. Haunted and Wasting are the best curses for your choices, but Haunted interferes with your getting magic items out, and Wasting interferes with UMD. If there's a Bard, Sorcerer, or Wizard in the party that limits the need for UMD, then Wasting becomes an excellent choice. The trick is a Haunted oracle doesn't rely on wands, rods, scrolls, or potions; they rely on wearable wondrous items, magic armor, and magic weapons. The Wasting oracle relies on any magic item that they can use anyway (which is a lot; you might not miss UMD, especially if metamagic rods are off the menu... what else might be?)
If you want Lore for Sidestep Secret, consider taking the Noble Scion of War feat from the Inner Sea World Guide--that feat lets you use Charisma instead of Dexterity for Initiative checks, as well as a bonus to Knowledge(Nobility) checks.
Or...
Be a Haunted Dark Tapestry Oracle. Max out UMD. Get a Lesser Ring of Revelation (Sidestep Secret). Since you're an oracle, you can use the ring on a successful UMD to emulate the Lore Mystery.
Those are some good suggestions, and I didn't know about the Scion feat, I am sure the dm would allow it since he is letting the Magus get dervish...
Thanks for the response, it gives me some options I like.
Keep em coming.
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IMO
The cost for dule cure vs. what you get for it. Not worth it.
Mystery (Inner Sea Magic)
Spellscar
Revelations
1: force damage 3+Cha day
2: Summoning elementals
3: Resistance acid cold electricity fire sonic
4: Incresses your caster level to remove effects you put in place
5: SR
6: Bouns spell high lights 2nd ray of enfeablement 8th lesser globe of invulnerability 14th spell turning
The Inner Sea Magic book opens up alot of options for oracles and other casters. You might want to look in to geting a copy.
Bleh... I really like Dark Tapestry, but Time has so many tempting aspects :P.
What do you think of mixing Time with Star Gazer?
I lose Time Stop to (Gags) Meteor Swarm, but at lower levels I pick up the awesome Glitterdust and Wandering Star Motes.
Kind of makes up for Time not having the greatest lower level spells in comparison to Dark Tapestry...
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The real down side to time after looking at it close. Most of it's revelations use touch attack or range touch attack to work. moving you closer to MAD. And to use some of the best ones you have to be in melee range.
Dark Tapestry is a good mystery over all with few down sides. The bonus spells realy push it higher in power.
Dark Tapestry > Time
The real down side to time after looking at it close. Most of it's revelations use touch attack or range touch attack to work. moving you closer to MAD. And to use some of the best ones you have to be in melee range.
Dark Tapestry is a good mystery over all with few down sides. The bonus spells realy push it higher in power.
Dark Tapestry > Time
Good points.
*Makes a sad wave toward Contingency as I write Dark Tapestry on my Character Sheet.*
Here's my completed character if anyone feels so inclined to comment on it..
I'm using the Character spreadsheets created by Shoelessinsight found in his lab if anyone is curious.
Thanks for the advice guys, I think I'm pretty satisfied with how this turned out, but as always, I'm open for any other suggestions.