Ok, so I have a level 10 fighter (+10 BAB) with a strength of 24(+7 CMB) attempting a trip with a +3 whip(+3) with weapon focus(whip) and greater weapon focus(whip) (+2) and improved trip(+2) that gives me a +24 bonus on my trip attempt.
Now the same fighter is attempting to trip without a weapon. The have an amulet of mighty fists +3 and weapon focus/greater weapon focus(unarmed strike).
Do I get the bonus from the amulet of mighty fist to my trip attempt?
Do I get the bonus from weapon focus(unarmed strike) to my trip attempt?
The rules don't actually define what "weapon" you are using for the trip attempt, so it is ambigious what bonuses would or would not apply.
The trip is replacing an attack action, so I assume it's up to the fighter in this situation to identify how he's performing the maneuver. It's worth noting that only weapons with the trip ability can be used.
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As per this FAQ, weapon-specific bonuses only get applied to your trip attempt if you're using a trip weapon.
Ok, so I have a level 10 fighter (+10 BAB) with a strength of 24(+7 CMB) attempting a trip with a +3 whip(+3) with weapon focus(whip) and greater weapon focus(whip) (+2) and improved trip(+2) that gives me a +24 bonus on my trip attempt.
Now the same fighter is attempting to trip without a weapon. The have an amulet of mighty fists +3 and weapon focus/greater weapon focus(unarmed strike).
Do I get the bonus from the amulet of mighty fist to my trip attempt?
Do I get the bonus from weapon focus(unarmed strike) to my trip attempt?The rules don't actually define what "weapon" you are using for the trip attempt, so it is ambigious what bonuses would or would not apply.
You get all the bonuses for your unarmed strike, so that should be +24. You cannot "drop" your feet or fists to avoid being tripped on a bad check, though :-)
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As per this FAQ, weapon-specific bonuses only get applied to your trip attempt if you're using a trip weapon.
To throw a bit of a monkey wrench into the machine here, wouldn't a monk with improved trip and weapon focus feats in unarmed combat be considered to be a trip weapon? RAW, perhaps not. For the cool factor, I'd say yes :)
As per this FAQ, weapon-specific bonuses only get applied to your trip attempt if you're using a trip weapon.To throw a bit of a monkey wrench into the machine here, wouldn't a monk with improved trip and weapon focus feats in unarmed combat be considered to be a trip weapon? RAW, perhaps not. For the cool factor, I'd say yes :)
On second thought you're right. So the bonus would be +19.
I thought I had seen a rule somewhere about using unarmed strike this way, but can't find it... :-/
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@Aspasia and Sangalor:
If you're not using a trip weapon, you're assumed to be tripping the opponent with some kind of leg sweep or other unarmed method - this is why you don't get weapon-specific bonuses without a trip weapon, and also why you fall on your butt if you fail too badly.
At first glance, one would think that this would imply you could get bonuses specific to unarmed strike, but again, unarmed strike doesn't have the "trip" weapon quality - you might think of it as being specially trained in hurting, rather than tripping, with your unarmed strikes (if you were specially trained in tripping, that's the Improved Trip feat, rather than WF:Unarmed Strike).
However, if it's a home game, consult with your GM. If I were GMing, I'd be willing to houserule that once you had both IUS and ImpTrip, you'd start getting weapon-specific bonuses to your unarmed trip attempts. But by the rules, it's a no-go.
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The trip is replacing an attack action, so I assume it's up to the fighter in this situation to identify how he's performing the maneuver. It's worth noting that only weapons with the trip ability can be used.
::buzzer::
nah, you can trip with any weapon. you just can't drop a weapon if you fail to avoid being tripped yourself.
tripping unarmed might cause a problem if you don't have improved unarmed strike, otherwise you're provoking for tripping, and provoking for an unarmed "attack" ... though the whole process might be rolled into one attack of opportunity via the combat maneuver process. so it's likely fine tripping unarmed.
and i'd allow the +3 from amulet to work.
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.
i'd say a bonus to unarmed strikes is applicable for kicking someone's legs out from under them.
@Aspasia and Sangalor:
If you're not using a trip weapon, you're assumed to be tripping the opponent with some kind of leg sweep or other unarmed method - this is why you don't get weapon-specific bonuses without a trip weapon, and also why you fall on your butt if you fail too badly.
At first glance, one would think that this would imply you could get bonuses specific to unarmed strike, but again, unarmed strike doesn't have the "trip" weapon quality - you might think of it as being specially trained in hurting, rather than tripping, with your unarmed strikes (if you were specially trained in tripping, that's the Improved Trip feat, rather than WF:Unarmed Strike).
However, if it's a home game, consult with your GM. If I were GMing, I'd be willing to houserule that once you had both IUS and ImpTrip, you'd start getting weapon-specific bonuses to your unarmed trip attempts. But by the rules, it's a no-go.
This is pretty much why I asked the question.
It seems pretty ambiguous. If I specify I am tripping with a leg sweep, it would seem like I should get the bonus of wep focus(Unarmed), but by RAW, I don't think you would.
The amulet of might fists is equally ambigious. It gives its bonus to all natural and unarmed attacks. I know a foot sweep isn't classified as a natural attack, and I am not sure it counts as an unarmed attacks.
The trip is replacing an attack action, so I assume it's up to the fighter in this situation to identify how he's performing the maneuver. It's worth noting that only weapons with the trip ability can be used.::buzzer::
nah, you can trip with any weapon. you just can't drop a weapon if you fail to avoid being tripped yourself.
tripping unarmed might cause a problem if you don't have improved unarmed strike, otherwise you're provoking for tripping, and provoking for an unarmed "attack" ... though the whole process might be rolled into one attack of opportunity via the combat maneuver process. so it's likely fine tripping unarmed.
Actually, as long as you have improved trip, you will not provoke for trip attempts ever. Unarmed or not doesn't matter.
The trip manuver never specifies that you are using a weapon. In theory, a trip attack could be a leg sweep while holding a scimitar. Nothing says I have to use the scimitar.
My problem is that depending on how you describe the trip attempt with a non-trip weapon, it would seem like you should get the benefit of amulet of MF or weapon focus(unarmed).
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The trip is replacing an attack action, so I assume it's up to the fighter in this situation to identify how he's performing the maneuver. It's worth noting that only weapons with the trip ability can be used.::buzzer::
nah, you can trip with any weapon. you just can't drop a weapon if you fail to avoid being tripped yourself.
::buzzer::
Someone hasn't been reading up. Check the FAQ (linked earlier in this thread, or you could find it at the "Help/FAQ" link at the top-right corner of every page). You'll see that (as I described earlier in this thread) unless a weapon has the trip quality, it never enters the equation for a Trip attempt - no Weapon Focus, no enhancement bonuses, etc.
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true, FAQ does clarify Charender's original question.
In effect, there's no difference between making an unarmed trip attempt and a trip attempt with a +5 longsword because the sword doesn't help you make the trip attempt.
so an unarmed trip with an amulet of mighty fists vs. a trip with a +5 longsword wouldn't help anyway. so no unarmed trip bonus for u. unless you can somehow grant the "trip" quality to your unarmed strikes.
the Quarterstaff mastery line of feats grants the Trip quality to quarterstaffs, there might be other feats / abilities that grant qualities to a weapon.