Constrict + normal damage each round?

[Buba HoTep]

Our party is in the middle of Rise of the Runelord's Skinsaw Murders, and had to fight the Revenant Iesha Foxglove (which almost ended in a TPK) as we got in her way.

I understand that now Grab can be used against equal sized creatures, and I think I know how constrict works, but our DM said that after it successfully grapples a PC, it gets to do constrict AND a claw damage each round. (while both it's hands maintain the grapple)

I was under the impression that once sth grapples you, unless they have other attacks that are not maintaining the grapple (ie. a bite or other appendages) then they only cause the constrict damage after successfully maintaining the grapple.

Please help! Thanks

[Talonhawke]

Constrict happens on a successful grapple check that check could be to do damage to move you whatever.

So its like this

Grapple check to attack with claw.
Success means i do claw and then i constrict since i made a successful grapple check.

[Buba HoTep]

Talonhawke wrote:

Constrict happens on a successful grapple check that check could be to do damage to move you whatever.

So its like this

Grapple check to attack with claw.
Success means i do claw and then i constrict since i made a successful grapple check.

Yes, I understand that it needs to do an initial claw attack in order to then attempt a grapple, but once she has the grapple, how can she do full claw damage each round while doing constrict damage with the same claw?

[Talonhawke]

A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack

Thats what the PRD says on constrict the bolding is mine. So when ever you make a grapple check if you are successful and have constrict you do the constrict damage.

[Buba HoTep]

Talonhawke wrote:

A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack

Thats what the PRD says on constrict the bolding is mine. So when ever you make a grapple check if you are successful and have constrict you do the constrict damage.

Looking at your first paragraph, bold type in this case are you saying that round by round, if this Revenant maintains the grapple she causes constrict damage (1d8+10), plus both claw attack damages (1d8+10 x2) for a total of 3d8+30 in one round simply by maintaining one grapple check?

But looking at your last sentence, it seems that you're saying once the first round of grapple is done (ie, claw attacks, + their damage, + constrict damage) in the following rounds a successful continuation of a grapple JUST causes constrict damage. (which is the way I've always played it)

Totally confused here... Also, do u know of any links to some official explanations as well?

[Talonhawke]

Anytime you make a grapple check and succeed you deal constrict you can attempt a grapple to do any number of things such as attack with a light or natural weapon move the grappled opponent or pin them any of these gives you constrict plus what the check was for.

The Revenant makes a check to deal damage with a claw and succeeds you take claw damage and take constrict.

Next round Revenant decides to move you and succeeds you get moved and take constrict.

[Buba HoTep]

Also this line

Quote:

(in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage).

Leads me to believe that the additional damage they're talking about must to be listed under constrict, and excludes the normal attack damage the creature does with it's regular melee attacks.

[Talonhawke]

Damage
You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal

This is the use of Grapple to deal damage when i succeed a check to deal damage I can deal damage with a natural attack armor spikes or a light or onehanded weapon. Then in addition i deal constrict damage since i succeeded on a grapple check.

[StabbittyDoom]

The constrict is on top of what anyone would normally do in a grapple. Since damaging is normal in a grapple, they can do that AND get constrict (or move and constrict, etc). This is what makes constrict creatures dangerous (and why you shouldn't throw them at really low-level parties).

@Buba, the word additional should clue you in that there is more than one damage source here. Constrict is one damage source, adding to the attack you get from maintaining the grapple (if you chose that option)

[Buba HoTep]

Talonhawke wrote:

Anytime you make a grapple check and succeed you deal constrict you can attempt a grapple to do any number of things such as attack with a light or natural weapon move the grappled opponent or pin them any of these gives you constrict plus what the check was for.

The Revenant makes a check to deal damage with a claw and succeeds you take claw damage and take constrict.

Next round Revenant decides to move you and succeeds you get moved and take constrict.

Wow, that makes absolutely no sense (though I'm not arguing with you, just the idiocy of the rule).

How can the creature get it's strength bonus to damage 3x in the same round?...
So if all it wanted to do was damage in a round while maintaining it's grapple I would be right in saying after one single check to maintain the grapple it would do 1d8+10 (constrict) then 2d8+20 (in this case, two claws). Correct?

[StabbittyDoom]

Buba HoTep wrote:

Talonhawke wrote:

Anytime you make a grapple check and succeed you deal constrict you can attempt a grapple to do any number of things such as attack with a light or natural weapon move the grappled opponent or pin them any of these gives you constrict plus what the check was for.

The Revenant makes a check to deal damage with a claw and succeeds you take claw damage and take constrict.

Next round Revenant decides to move you and succeeds you get moved and take constrict.

Wow, that makes absolutely no sense (though I'm not arguing with you, just the idiocy of the rule).

How can the creature get it's strength bonus to damage 3x in the same round?...
So if all it wanted to do was damage in a round while maintaining it's grapple I would be right in saying after one single check to maintain the grapple it would do 1d8+10 (constrict) then 2d8+20 (in this case, two claws). Correct?

They only get ONE claw. Only one attack from the grapple check unless they get a special rule otherwise.

And remember that the grappled creature has -4 dex, making them an easier target for any allies their victim might have.

[Buba HoTep]

StabbittyDoom wrote:

The constrict is on top of what anyone would normally do in a grapple. Since damaging is normal in a grapple, they can do that AND get constrict (or move and constrict, etc). This is what makes constrict creatures dangerous (and why you shouldn't throw them at really low-level parties).

@Buba, the word additional should clue you in that there is more than one damage source here. Constrict is one damage source, adding to the attack you get from maintaining the grapple (if you chose that option)

Hmmm... ok, it seems really overpowered to me, and I'm not sure how it physically works since it's melee attacks IMO would cause their damage from the claws themselves and the STR of the swing, but if dems' the rules, dems' the rules.

The problem then is the balance of the encounter. We're a 4th level party and she's a 76 HP grabbing and constricting monster, which means that besides me (the Paladin and tank) everyone basically drops after she gets one round of damage off. Oh, and if they happen to survive, her CMD is 26 so it's damn near impossible to break free.

No wonder we were all flabbergasted after that encounter. Sheesh.

Thanks for the help guys.

[Buba HoTep]

StabbittyDoom wrote:

They only get ONE claw. Only one attack from the grapple check unless they get a special rule otherwise.

And remember that the grappled creature has -4 dex, making them an easier target for any allies their victim might have.

Cheers, ok that's what the DM did. And the two that were grappled ended up dropping after two rounds of her attacking.... ugh.

It was almost a TPK (and I think the only reason it WASN'T was because the DM felt sorry for us and indicated heavily that we should let it go) that we never really had a chance of winning in the middle of an adventure path.

[BigNorseWolf]

Yes. the most common use of constrict is in fact to deal double damage to someone with a successful grapple check. They make the check to deal damage, and the constrict special ability kicks in, oh look, MORE damage!

It can be very lethal at low levels, and it means you need to break out the big guns and get your party member out of the monsters jaws/tentacles asap.