| Cyberwolf2xs |
You did realize that a Spherewalker increases spellcasting, right? ;)
That said... If you want to include some levels in fighter, I'd take mobile fighter, just for the flavor of it.
Other viable choices include knife master rogues, hurler barbarians and various monk archetypes for the "mundane" side.
For the caster side, I'd always choose oracle of the heavens - how much more Desna-inspired can it become? Otherwise, there's always cleric of desna or sorcerer (dreamspun or starsoul bloodlines).
Which combination of these is the best all depends on how you imagine that character to be, I think.
| Sean FitzSimon |
I'm looking over the spherewalker class and while I see it as a wonderfully flavorful PrC I don't see what it has to offer a fighter-type that doesn't have any emphasis on magic. Just reviewing quickly here:
Landmark: Awesomely unique ability, and has some interesting applications for exploration. Not particularly useful in the long run, though.
Longstrider: A useful spell that scales with level. Good for everyone, and a favorite of rangers & druids.
Spells per Day: It's either full progression of your current spells or a half-assed spell progression that nets you 5 spell slots of levels 1-5, requires wisdom 15 minimum to cast, and is from a very limited spell list. It's not terrible, since your caster level is 10 by the end of it all, and is a neat way to add a very limited casting aspect to the character.
Efficient Sleep: Meh. Sleep effects are very rare, particularly later in the game. Requiring half the time to become rested is almost entirely a storytelling element. Plus, the rest of your party still needs to sleep.
Star Slinger: This seems neat at first until you realize one thing: weapons return at the start of your next turn, so you only get 1 attack with a star knife per turn. Additionally, if you move/have your hands full then it falls to the ground and you'll have to spend a move action to pick it up. With a range of 20' you're likely going to be very close to combat or taking decent penalties without serious feat investments. In the most likely scenario you'll only ever be getting off 2 attacks per round (1 in each hand) and that's just not great.
Dream Link: Very, very cool. I can see many uses of this ability.
Divine Luck: A very powerful ability on a character who focuses on charisma, particularly because there's no limit to how many times it can be used during a round.
Swarm Form: Offensively this is going to suck big. You're looking at a DC somewhere between 15 and 17 unless you've invested heavily in constitution. It's also crap for anyone who's made weapon usage their primary contribution in a fight. Defensively, however, it's excellent. It's perfect immunity to non energy weapon based attacks, which means you can mix it up in melee and cast to your heart's content. Combine this with eschew materials and you'll have a particularly frustrated DM.
Reviewing the abilities, the prestige class doesn't have much to offer a weapon-based character. In fact, it discourages its use more than once. However, the class has a lot to offer a spellcaster with an emphasis on charisma and the ability to mix it up with the occasional thrown starknife. Bard, Oracle, Sorcerer, Cleric, or to a lesser degree Paladin have a lot to gain from this class. I'd be wary of pursuing it with other classes, particularly with the 2-3 sub par feats required for entry.
| Cyberwolf2xs |
Sean, your analysis is correct.
However, even if that might be a somewhat minor problem, a starknife is a martial weapon.
So if you want to be a full lvl 20 caster and not waste a feat on that (or have a class ability you'll never use), you should be a cleric of desna (then you are proficient with it because it is your deity's favored weapon) or a Magus.
Personally, I think it's a bit meh that an oracle of heavens, as desna related as it is flavorfully, does not get starknife proficiency, but well.
If you choose another casting class, you have to take the feat or dip into a class proficient with martial weapons.
An oracle, as a divine caster, can wear armor without spell failure chances, so you could take a one level dip of Emissary cavalier (gain: full movement in medium armor).
If you're any cha-caster, you could also take a two level dip into Paladin, as Divine Grace would greatly improve your saves - but, since Desna is chaotic good, a lawful good Pally might be a bit far off. So a one level dip into Barb or Fighter would be better, flavorwise.
And btw, to get more attacks with throwing knifes, there's always the Quick Draw feat.
| Sean FitzSimon |
However, even if that might be a somewhat minor problem, a starknife is a martial weapon.
Yeah, I'd forgotten about this. Still, if you're willing to spend a feat on it the Human and Half-Elf can pick it up at relatively low cost. Cleric, as you pointed out, is the most direct route for this and has the most to benefit.
And btw, to get more attacks with throwing knifes, there's always the Quick Draw feat.
Barring a (reasonable) DM fiat, quick draw will not allow you throw multiple star knives unless they are on your person. A returning weapon falls to your feet if you don't have a free hand, and retrieving an item from the ground is a move action. It's also listed separately from wielding a weapon, and the quick draw feat makes no mention of retrieving the item from the ground. It's not a tough sell to the DM, but RAW it's not possible.
| Cyberwolf2xs |
Barring a (reasonable) DM fiat, quick draw will not allow you throw multiple star knives unless they are on your person. A returning weapon falls to your feet if you don't have a free hand, and retrieving an item from the ground is a move action. It's also listed separately from wielding a weapon, and the quick draw feat makes no mention of retrieving the item from the ground. It's not a tough sell to the DM, but RAW it's not possible.
Of course. But at least you could throw more than two starknives in one turn(depending on your BAB (max 4) and TWF feats (max 3), up to 7, even 8 with haste).
Depending on how you rule it, wether they all come back at once at the beginning of your next turn or if they come back in the same intervals you threw them (which is a discussion that dates back to 3.5 times) you might have the problem that you can only catch two of them and have to retrieve the rest from the ground...
But at least you get one full volley, as long as you have enough starknives with you ;)
| Mathmuse |
I once considered making a Spherewalker myself. I loved the description of its goals. Spherewalker had been designed as a D&D 3.5 class, so I downloaded the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Conversion Guide (OGL) PDF (http://paizo.com/store/downloads/v5748btpy89m6) and attempted to convert the prestige class to Pathfinder.
The Conversion Guide has only short instructions for converting prestige classes: the sill-rank prerequisites change to reflect that characters' maximum skill ranks equal their character level rather than character level plus three, the Saves convert to the Pathfinder prestige progression, which is worse for good saves and better for weak saves, and the classes are stripped of redundant Class Skills since cross-class skills don't cost more in Pathfinder. However, I noticed that in the official conversions of 3.5 prestige classes to Pathfinder, the classes gained a few extra abilities or better hit dice to match the increased character versatility and toughness of Pathfinder. I tried to figure out what extras spherewalker should get.
Spherewalker was designed as a prestige class open to all character classes, so it did not give any boosts to bardic performance, animal companions, sneak attack, or other specialized skills. Instead, spherewalker gave 1d8 Hit Points and 3/4 BAB progression, matching the 3.5 Cleric, Druid, Monk, and Ranger, and better than the 1d6 of 3.5 Bard and Rogue. It gave 4+Int skill points at each level, which was average, yet the only primary spellcasting prestige classes that got 4+Int skill points had a definite skill focus, such as Arcane Trickster and Loremaster. It gave +1 level of spellcasting class at every level, which was limited in 3.5 to the 1d4 Hit Points and 1/2 BAB progression prestige classes such as Arcane Trickster, Archmage, Loremaster, Mystic Theurge, and Thaumaturgist.
I decided the best extras for spherewalker would be to repair the weaknesses in its existing abilities.
Sean Fitzsimon pointed out that the Star Slinger ability has the typical weaknesses of returning weapons. I rewrote Star Slinging to correct that.
Star Slinger (Ex): At 1st level, a Spherewalker gains Martial Proficiency(starknife). She also gains the ability to throw a starknife so that it does slashing damage instead of piercing damage. A starknife thrown this way flies in an arc and lands at the end of the turn in a chosen square within 20 feet of where it was thrown. If the Spherewalker has an empty hand, she may catch a starknife that lands in her square as a free action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If she has Quick Draw, she may also instantly sheathe the starknife to keep her hand empty.
Note that I said, "At 1st level". I swapped Star Slinger and Landmark, because starknife slinging is much cooler and I wanted it as the signature move of a spherewalker. I also dropped Martial Proficiency(starknife) from the spherewalker prerequisites. Note that throwing three starknives a turn still requires carrying three starknives.
I replaced Efficient Sleep with Watchful Dreams. Less sleep did not make sense for a follower of Desna.
Watchful Dreams (Su): At 2nd level the Spherewalker's dreams keep watch while she sleeps. The Spherewalker gains 60 foot Blindsense with no Perception penalties while asleep and can wake herself as a standard action based on what she observes while asleep. This Blindsense can view through the fabric of a tent but cannot penetrate any barrier more solid than that.
I exchanged some of the increase in spellcasting for two more abilities in order to make Spherewalker a better prestige class for barbarians, bards, and rangers, but I will skip the details of that. I get excessive when I rewrite.
Part of the reason I wanted to drop some of the spellcasting is that Spherewalker's current full spellcasting progression makes Wizard/Spherewalker too good a combination. A character with any levels in Wizard who progresses as a Spherewalker can progress as Wizard but with a larger Hit Die, better balance on saves, two more skill points, and a few extra abilities in exchange for losing one bonus feat every four levels and free spells for his spellbook. Furthermore, Landmark ability most benefits a character that knows Teleport.
Thus, I recommend taking one level of Wizard before taking Spherewalker, even for a starknife-focused Spherewalker. Also learn the Lead Blades spell, which enhances all the starknives the Spherewalker carries when he casts it. They do not lose the enhancement when thrown.
Dunwhoops said straight fighter, but some fighter archetypes fit better with starknives. Weapon Master specializes in one weapon and the starknife being both melee and returning ranged adds versatility. A Free Hand Fighter prefers to keep one hand free, so throwing a starknife to free one hand, gaining the benefit of Free Hand Fighter's Singleton bonus with a second hand-held starknife, and then catching the first starknife again would be fun (arguments over whether one of these starknives must be wielded off-hand can be avoided if you use my version of Star Slinger). A Two-Weapon Warrior must use two weapons for maximum benefit, but throwing two starknives would count.
Pathfinder has feats that complement unusual classes like Spherewalker. Quick Draw is necessary for throwing more than two starknives. Arcane Strike is a cheap way to give each starknife +1 magic, later increasing to +2 magic (I cringe at the financial recklessness of throwing a 2000 gp or 8000 gp enchanted weapon, despite the returning ability). Opening Volley from Ultimate Combat works well with throw-first-melee-second combat.
| saucercrab |
Hey has anyone made an optimal build for a Spherewalker?
I am thinking a straight fighter and focusing on throwing starknifes. Any ideas are welcome, I want an awesome Spherewalker.
The build idea (& level breakdown) I would like to try eventually is ranger (guide & skirmisher archetypes) 3/rogue (knife master archetype) 3/horizon walker 10/spherewalker 4. It can fit both the Two-Weapon Fighting & Dimensional Agility feat trees.
Ranger is to start Two-Weapon Fighting & fulfill the horizon walker requirements. Rogue knife master is for extra starknife damage. Horizon walker is for the dim door SLA. Dimensional Agility (& its feat tree) for setting up flanking for sneak attacks. Spherewalker is just gravy.
That said, it'll take a while to get really started, & Wisdom is definitely important, but it's a fun, flavorful build.
Davor
|
I actually went with a multiclassed Rogue/Ranger/Spherewalker, chose the spell-less ranger archetype (Skirmisher) so I could pick up the domain spells and not just have crappy, stilted ranger spellcasting, and I actually really enjoyed it. I totally ignored the Starknives because... well, I don't like throwing weapons.
My build went something like Rogue 4/Ranger 4/Spherewalker X. Took the Travel domain, had fun with it :P