Dual-wield scythes?

[ulgulanoth]

reading the titan mauler- Jontungrip allows you to weild a two handed weapon in one hand, so for a 2lv dip you get to duel weild scythes right? using two weapon fighter you can get rid of most of the penalties for doing this... feasable?

[thepuregamer]

ulgulanoth wrote:

reading the titan mauler- Jontungrip allows you to weild a two handed weapon in one hand, so for a 2lv dip you get to duel weild scythes right? using two weapon fighter you can get rid of most of the penalties for doing this... feasable?

well, jotungrip lets you treat a 2 hand weapon as a 1 hand weapon at the cost of a -2 penalty to hit.

two weapon warrior lets you twf with light weapons at -1 instead of -2(@lvl 11) and no penalty at lvl 13. It also lets you treat 1 hand weapons like light weapons at lvl 11. Although treated like light weapons for twf'ing penalty, 1 hand weapons are not actually light weapons and will net get the extra penalty decrease.

But you would still have both the jotungrip penalty and the -2 penalty for twf'ing with light weapons if using 2 scyths.

So 15 lvls and you can wield 2 scyths at -4. You are better off, spending 0 lvls and wielding a scyth in 2 hands and using armor spikes or an unarmed strike in your off hand. Or go monk and flurry with the 2 handed weapon of your choice.

I am not 100% certain on that interpretation. Often it is difficult to say how far to go when an ability says treat x like it is y. Under some interpretations, this could be a -2 penalty by lvl 15 and under others, it could be a -6 since scythes are still two handed weapons by category and they might thus not work with the two weapon warrior abilities.

[Zerumm]

I believe you still incur penalty for using two handed weapons one handed.

[ulgulanoth]

well i was hoping that that the counting as hand weapons would stack with the two weapon fighting....

[thepuregamer]

well it would not be broken to allow it, since you aren't getting the full benefit until lvl 15 anyway. If you are not in a PFS game, talk to your dm about it.

[Fozbek]

It does stack with Two-Weapon Fighting. You're at -6 to hit with each hand; -2 from Jotungrip and -4 from not using a light weapon (note that light weapons are distinct from one-handed weapons).

[thepuregamer]

fozbek, he was referring to the two weapon warrior archetype I think. which gives you 2 relevant abilities.

two-weapon warrior from prd wrote:

Improved Balance (Ex): At 11th level, the attack penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by –1 for a two-weapon warrior. Alternatively, he may use a one-handed weapon in his off-hand, treating it as if it were a light weapon with the normal light weapon penalties. This ability replaces armor training 3.

Perfect Balance (Ex): At 15th level, the penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by an additional –1 for a two-weapon warrior. This benefit stacks with improved balance. If he is using a one-handed weapon in his off hand, treating it as a light weapon, he uses the normal light weapon penalties. This ability replaces armor training 4.

also looks like one wouldn't get the full benefit of this class until lvl 17. I was wrong when I said 13 before. Since it would be 2 titan mauler barb/15 two weapon warrior fighter.

[jeuce]

sounds like a lot of cheese to me, should use a Tetsubo instead. would be less awkward.

[thepuregamer]

jeuce wrote:

sounds like a lot of cheese to me, should use a Tetsubo instead. would be less awkward.

It's not cheesy. Just terribly ineffective for 17 lvls. In 3.5, I made a fighter who dual wielded greatswords using monkey grip. For all those guys attempting to make huge weapon users, it seems like a cool idea.

[Quantum Steve]

thepuregamer wrote:

fozbek, he was referring to the two weapon warrior archetype I think. which gives you 2 relevant abilities.

two-weapon warrior from prd wrote:

Improved Balance (Ex): At 11th level, the attack penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by –1 for a two-weapon warrior. Alternatively, he may use a one-handed weapon in his off-hand, treating it as if it were a light weapon with the normal light weapon penalties. This ability replaces armor training 3.

Perfect Balance (Ex): At 15th level, the penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by an additional –1 for a two-weapon warrior. This benefit stacks with improved balance. If he is using a one-handed weapon in his off hand, treating it as a light weapon, he uses the normal light weapon penalties. This ability replaces armor training 4.

also looks like one wouldn't get the full benefit of this class until lvl 17. I was wrong when I said 13 before. Since it would be 2 titan mauler barb/15 two weapon warrior fighter.

The way I read Improved Balance/Perfect Balance, after Fighter 11 he's pretty much as good as he's going to get.

Improved Balance says "Alternatively," meaning he either gets the reduced penalty when using light weapons, or he can treat an off-hand one-handed weapon as light using the "normal" light weapon penalties (as opposed to the "special Improved Balance" light weapon penalties.) He can't do both at once.

Perfect Balance has similar wording, allowing the Fighter to wield a one-handed weapon off hand using the "normal" light weapon penalties.

When wielding one-handed weapons, there doesn't appear to be any improvement in Perfect Balance over Improved Balance, so at Brb2/Ftr11 he would swing two scythes at -4 to each hand (-2 Jotungrip, -2 TWF).