At first it seems counter intuitive, but listen to my explanation. Say there is a powerful sorceress looking for someone to be by her side. There are certain things about a low charisma character that make it attractive.
* They are less able to efficiently lie thus less likely to lie in the first place. That's the thing about charismatic people, they have that ability to trick you which makes them less trustworthy
* They are more obedient. Without the charisma bring up their own opinions they tend to be more submissive. That's why the DC on diplomacy is higher for more charismatic people. It's just easier to get people to do your bidding when they think/know that they're below you. They are less able to intimidate, lie to, or convince you to let up.
Charisma doesn't necessarily mean ugly, so they can be pretty too. Even if they're not, I suppose you could alter them to make them look pretty.
Low charisma characters are less likely to try to take control and less able to hide information from you making them great for long lasting relationships. Charismatic characters are much to ambitious and more likely to pull the veil over your eyes as they usurp all that you've worked for.
thingsies
This is true. I actually have a character I've written up who's hauntingly beautiful, but has a cha of 7. Because if you talk to her for more than a second you realise just how bland and without any personality she is. (she's true neutral and makes all her decisions with coinflips :p )
I ran a bard who fell in love with Corax the lumberjack from the Kingmaker AP. He was big and brawny and fun in all the ways that she liked, except being possessive. Admittedly, their affair didn't last much longer than she had less levels than him and moved to the big city.
She likes simple, rough dudes. The guys with high charisma don't put up with her stuff quite so well, and aren't as devoted. Plus their capable of doing things on their own without hand-feeding.
As far as she is concerned, all the higher charisma dudes she knows are out to kill her. Sometimes literally. So yeah... Low charisma dudes are quite attractive.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Very interesting points, Ion Raven. Well thought-out.
It does seem like a lot of people have only one or two interpretations of low CHA: nasty/belligerent, or socially awkward/geeky. But there's soooo much more available.
I have an 8 CHA fighter who's quiet, contemplative/tactical, and pragmatic (he also has 14 INT). He's "non-charming" by virtue of being task-focused and practical. I'm sure there are people who would find that attractive.
I also have a 7 CHA rogue with a positive Diplomacy modifier. He puts little stock in social niceties and would rather get to the point and tell it like it is, so he comes across as being unnecessarily short with people sometimes. However - representing the training in diplomacy - he's able to observe those social rules that he'd rather dismiss, if he feels the need. I could see people being attracted to that, as well.
Excellent post, Ion Raven. Nice to see people digging deeper into the stats.
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At first it seems counter intuitive, but listen to my explanation. Say there is a powerful sorceress looking for someone to be by her side. There are certain things about a low charisma character that make it attractive.
* They are less able to efficiently lie thus less likely to lie in the first place. That's the thing about charismatic people, they have that ability to trick you which makes them less trustworthy
* They are more obedient. Without the charisma bring up their own opinions they tend to be more submissive. That's why the DC on diplomacy is higher for more charismatic people. It's just easier to get people to do your bidding when they think/know that they're below you. They are less able to intimidate, lie to, or convince you to let up.
Charisma doesn't necessarily mean ugly, so they can be pretty too. Even if they're not, I suppose you could alter them to make them look pretty.
Low charisma characters are less likely to try to take control and less able to hide information from you making them great for long lasting relationships. Charismatic characters are much to ambitious and more likely to pull the veil over your eyes as they usurp all that you've worked for.
THEN WHY SEONI AM STILL NOT RETURNING BARBARIAN CALLS?!
THEN WHY SEONI AM STILL NOT RETURNING BARBARIAN CALLS?!
Valeros keeps deleting your messages off her machine.
My first thought on that was manipulative charismatic businessman versus sexy but uncharismatic chick.
It works in real life, it should work in pathfinder too.
In my current campaign there are half-elf 'twins' that almost look the same (all but hair/eye color). One is a bard, the other one barbarian. High charisma vs. low charisma, almost identical looks. PC is attracted to both tho :)
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Shalelu Andosana has a charisma of 8.
Shalelu Andosana has a charisma of 8.
So abstract.
I dunno, she kinda looks like a b#%&#. Makes sense to me.
1/4 of charisma is determined by appearance.
Why do we have three threads about this
She had a higher charisma before she went to the Land of Toys.Shalelu Andosana has a charisma of 8.
Shalelu Andosana has a charisma of 8.
So abstract.
Str 12, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 8
Hook Mountain Massacre.
I'm confused.
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Kudos to Ion Raven for an interesting thread.
Mechanistically speaking, Shalelu is no surprise... charisma is the least useful stats for most rangers, unless they are heavily into animal companions.
As to the OP concept: This is quite interesting, but you are right. Certain personality types would be associated with a low charisma. And many people may be attracted to those types of personalities. High charisma, as I see it, would be an advantage as a first impression, but would vanish in the long run.
Take the excellent example given by Jiggy above, of his cha 8 character who's focused, pragmatic and driven, with little time for niceties. (the typical rpg good-aligned ranger, in my opinion)
The sorceress in the first post may at first be more drawn to a silver-tongued cha 16 bard. But after getting to know both of them, she may begin to admire the cha 8 warrior for his personality traits.
Of course, if she doesn't take the time to talk to him (or if the warrior does not make the effort to press his suit) she would not realize he has those traits.
I don't think high charisma on a ranger feels right. Someone that goes out through the wilderness a lot might not be the kind of person that would like to stand out in a crowd or be the best public speaker.
Also why would you want to sleep with a liar?
So, the consensus here is: Ugly people get laid too. Good job everyone. From a philosophical standpoint, I agree that any personality can be attractive to the right soul. From a gameplay/mechanics standpoint, you took the 7 CHA, you're taking the penalty. You wanna romance the barmaid, fine. You're not the social butterfly, however. You can spin it as 'ugly, but friendly' or 'handsome, but dull' or 'terse and all business'. I don't care. However, a penalty is a penalty. I've playing some version of this game for 20 years now. I have heard the most elaborately crafted story reasons for everything from why having only one arm makes you a better fighter, to why you should get that vorpal sword at level 3. Make the character the way you want, but don't expect obvious tricks like stat dumping to be ignored because you don't like not being awesome.
She had a higher charisma before she went to the Land of Toys.Shalelu Andosana has a charisma of 8.
Shalelu Andosana has a charisma of 8.
So abstract.
Str 12, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 8
Hook Mountain Massacre.
I'm confused.
She is depected as a very one dimensional goblin killer in the first part of RotRL, so maybe it makes sense.
Her INT goes to 12 in Jade Regent but CHR is left at 8.
My personal take is that this is a reflection of a limitation of point buy systems. Some characters really should be built above average in just about every way. Shalelu is one of these, in my mind. I'd go with a 20 point buy for her and bring CHR up to about 12 as well, simply because I don't think ANY elf should have less than that if CHR is force of personality, which is how I have always seen it.