| Spacepup |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I really like the Dread Necromancer from 3.5's Heroes of Horror, it's been one of my favorite classes for a long time, though I haven't actually gotten to play one before (story of my gaming life). I figured I'd try to work up something for Pathfinder, since that seems to be what I'm playing around here.
I'm trying to do something more original than just a conversion of the original, but retaining the basic pieces of the class that made it my favorite in the first place. Any help or criticism is more than welcome, considering I've never done anything like this.
Basic design goals: In descending order of importance to the class, Hordes of Undead Minions, powerful but very focused spellcasting, and moderate combat abilities for the first handful of levels.
- On the Subject of Undead Hordes:
- When you aquire Animate dead, the pool you can control is expanded to (HD x 4) + (HD x CHA modifier), like the undead mastery of the Dread Necromancer.
- I'm debating whether I should give my class a straight-up bonus to undead animated by the Necromancer like the Dread Necromancer does, work up some Corpsecrafting-esque feats that are given as free feats every few levels, or some kind of combination of both. Giving the choice of free feats every few levels would help what I see as a little lack of new things in the Dread Necromancer class at high levels.
- On the Subject of Powerful but Focused Spellcasting:
- The Dread Necromancer had a very focused spell list, almost entirely Necromancy spells, and even the Advanced Learning ability that let the Dread Necro add Wizard or Cleric spells only allowed more necromancy spells. The Dread Necro is a full 9 level class, but I'm wondering if maybe a 2/3rds spellcasting class is more appropriate, most of the Undead-related spells are level 6 or lower, at least on the Cleric spell lists. I think maybe adding Lesser Animate Dead at 2nd level or getting Animate Dead at 3rd level like a cleric instead of 4th like a wizard would make sure the class doesn't get the ability to build it's undead hordes any later than the Dread Necro already does.
- Some of the suggestions on old topics about converting the Dread Necromancer had an idea of the Advanced learning skill allowing you to learn any cleric or wizard spell at a spell level higher than normal. I was also thinking, if moving to a 2/3rd casting class, allowing the 7-9th level necromancy spells as once/day spell-like abilities, or casting having them take up 2 6th level spell slots.
- On the Subject of Moderate Combat Abilities:
- A big thing I'm thinking of is whether to stick with a d6 HD and slow BAB progression, or to bump it up to Medium BAB/HD. If I went to Medium BAB I think I would restrict spellcasting to a 2/3rds spellcasting like the Magus, though I wonder if staying with an almost totally-necromancer 9-level spell list is enough of a drawback for a medium BAB spellcasting class.
- Some kind of at-will or maybe CHA mod + 3 times a day touch attack of negative energy, like the Dread Necro's Charnel Touch, that is useful as damage at early levels but becomes a way to keep your undead minions topped up on health later on.
- Miscellaneous:
- Proficiencies? Light armor and Simple weapons? I swear I thought of 1 martial weapon proficiency totally on my own before realizing that's what the Dread Necromancer also does. I'm trying to create something partially original, but it's really hard guys!
I'll post more as I work it out, but right now I think I'm supposed to be cleaning up the apartment before I go to work so my wife doesn't have to do it all herself when she gets home from work before my mom comes for a visit tomorrow.
Any ideas/tips/criticisms are welcome, if anyone can wade through my walls of text.
| Caedwyr |
You might want to consider taking a look at Super Genius Game's Death Mage
It seems to cover most of the conceptual ground you are looking to cover with your Dread Necromancer update.
A Corpse Mage pale road seems to handle the hordes of undead.
The class does have a powerful, but very focused death/necromancy themed spelllist.
The Fetish Death bond can provide a moderate improvement to melee combat abilities, and the class has d8 HD and medium BAB.
Also, most reports seem to indicate that the class is well balanced.
| Spacepup |
You might want to consider taking a look at Super Genius Game's Death Mage
It seems to cover most of the conceptual ground you are looking to cover with your Dread Necromancer update.
A Corpse Mage pale road seems to handle the hordes of undead.
The class does have a powerful, but very focused death/necromancy themed spelllist.
The Fetish Death bond can provide a moderate improvement to melee combat abilities, and the class has d8 HD and medium BAB.
Also, most reports seem to indicate that the class is well balanced.
I do like the look of the Death Mage, but a couple of things just seems off to me. A possible full-level animal cohort, leadership as a class feature, and a class focused on semi-permanent undead minions seems like a nightmare for an unprepared DM. This seems a little hypocritical coming from someone trying to create a class with an inflated Animate Dead pool, but it has made me think more about defining 'Undead Hordes'
I guess I said Undead Horde because that's the classical image when you think see huge animate dead pools, but my image for a Dread Necromancer has been more like a Pokemon than Pikmin; controlling two or three of the most powerful undead he can control at that level, carefully and lovingly spell-stitched and crafted, but still more like master and pet rather than relying on the masses of Intelligent Undead that the Leadership feature gets you.
Maybe I just have some kind of unobtainable idea of how a this necromancer should be in a way that isn't really obtainable through mechanics.
Actually, thinking about it, maybe it would work as some kind of Summoner Archetype might work, gaining necromancy spells at appropriate levels, maybe loosing the Eidolon, but gaining the ability to apply the Eidolon's Evolutions to his undead minions.
This is going to take a lot of thought, but does anyone else have anything to chip in about maybe a weird Summoner Archetype?
| Caedwyr |
I do like the look of the Death Mage, but a couple of things just seems off to me. A possible full-level animal cohort, leadership as a class feature, and a class focused on semi-permanent undead minions seems like a nightmare for an unprepared DM. This seems a little hypocritical coming from someone trying to create a class with an inflated Animate Dead pool, but it has made me think more about defining 'Undead Hordes'
While you could build a Death Mage with both a horde of undead and a semi-undead (unbreathing) animal companion, you don't have to go that route. You could use a different Pale Road (5 different options) and a different Death Bond (3 options) to avoid that situation. If you want to make some tweaks for your own design, the Death Mage might be a good place to start - it appears to cover a lot of the intellectual design space.
Set
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If suggest a medium BAB and d8 hit die basis like the summoner and the bard to start with along with cantrips and 6 levels of spells.
As much as I liked the notion of a ton of minions, in the day, for gameplay reasons, it might be easier to just flat-out steal the Summoner and swap out the conjuration-heavy spell-list for an equally necromancy-heavy spell list, the summon monster SLA for a summon undead SLA, and the Eidolon for an undead critter that works pretty much exactly like the Eidolon, but has swapped out some of the Evolutions for more undead-flavored Evolutions (like cause disease or fear aura or ability damage or whatever).
With more tweakage, you could also use the Summoner as a 'chassis' to build a PF-style Thrallherd base class, with one permanant Thrall (in place of the Eidolon) and the ability to cast 1 round / level dominate person / monster SLAs a number of times per day, replacing the Summon Monster SLA.
And while I don't recall 3.X going this route, other options, such as a 'Glamer Knight' that used the summoner, a tougher shadow monster type Eidolon or shadow monster SLAs (and an illusion heavy list), or a 'Lord of Fire' who had a fiery elemental Eidolon and a series of fiery blasting SLAs (and a fiery evocation heavy list), or a 'Feyfriend' with a fey companion, summon nature's ally SLAs and an enchantment/illusion list, could also work off the same base Summoner 'chassis.'
| Spacepup |
Regardless of what route I end up taking, I'd really like to keep the strength and focus of the class on Animate dead, not modifying an existing eidolon.
If I did do a Summoner Archetype, I would probably remove the Eidolon itself as a class feature. The Summoner would instead be able to apply what Evolutions the Eidolon would normally gain to minions created and controlled through Animate Dead. I would probably drop the Summon SLA entirely, or re-purpose it for equivalent-level Necromancy spells (which would allow the archetype to cast a few high-level necromancy spells, which I like, despite them not being on his available spell list.).
Without an actual Eidolon though the question is what to do with the abilities like Transposition, Shield Ally, or Merge. Do I replace them with something else, remove them entirely, or allow them to work with Undead minions enhanced with evolutions.
The question is, is something with this many changes still an archetype, or a new class that just uses some of the Summoner evolutions.
I really do like the idea of using the Evolutions to modify Animated undead, it gives the same kind of feel as the Corpescrafter and spellstiched feats that allowed to the Dread Necromancer to strengthen and 'customize' his undead.
| Spacepup |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Alright, here's a stab at creating a new base class called The Reanimator. Heavily based on the Summoner, though with too many drastic differences for me to think it would work as an archetype. Any kind of criticism or help is welcome, I'll be updating this post (though I should really check for an edit option before I say that... fingers crossed!) as I complete more of it and incorporate any suggestions.
I do have some questions though:
The Reanimator
Alignment: Any. Many Reanimators tend towards neutral and evil, but a minority remain staunchly good by limiting their use of spells with the Evil descriptor.
HD: d8
Class Skills: The reanimator's class skills are Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Fly (Dex), Knowledge (all) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + Int Modifier
Class Features
The Following are the class Features of the Reanimator.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Reanimators are proficient with all simple weapons and light armors. Reanimators are also proficient with one Martial weapon of the player's choice. A Reanimator can cast Reanimator spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a Reanimator wearing medium or heacy armor, or using a shield, incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass reanimator still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells recieved from other classes.
Spells: A reanimator casts arcane spells drawn from the reanimator spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell's level.
To learn or cast a spell, a Reanimator must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Reanimator’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the reanimator's Charisma modifier.
A reanimator can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level each day. His base daily spell allotment is given in the attached table. In addition, he recieves bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.
A reanimator's selection of spells is extremely limited. A reanimator begins play knowing 4 0-level spells and 2 1st-level spells of the reanimator's choice. At each new reanimator level, he gains one or more new spells as indicated by Table 2-8: Summoner Spells known on page 57 of the Advanced Player's Guide.
Cantrips: A reanimator learns a number of Cantrips, or 0-level spells. These spells are cast like any other spell, but they may be cast any number of times per day. Cantrips prepared using other spell slots, due to metamagic feats, for example, consume spell slots normally.
Life over Unlife (Su): The Reanimator recieves Command Undead as a bonus feat at 1st level. The reanimator can channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence Modifier, but only to use Command Undead. You can take other feats to add to this ability, such as Extra Channel and Improved Channel, but not feats that alter this ability such as Elemental Channel and Alignment Channel. The DC to save against these feats is equal to 10 + 1/2 your reanimator level + your Charisma Modifier.
| Spacepup |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hmm, my last post has an edit option, but I assume it gets removed when something else gets posted. I guess I'll just start a new post to continue, I don't want to run out of time trying to edit my last post. I'll probably learn to fiddle with google docs to try to compile everything if I get a finished product.
Here is my first shot at a Class table, including the abilities and class features I've got so far. This is my first time messing with Google Docs, so let me know if something isn't working.
Any comments are welcome.
Deadly Touch (Su): At 1st level the Reanimator gains the ability to empower his touch with Negative Energy. At first level, the Reanimator can attempt a touch attack against a target; if the attack hits, the target takes 1d8 of Negative Energy damage plus 1 per Caster Level. At 5th level, the damage increases to 2d8 plus 1 per CL; at 10th level the damage increases to 3d8 plus 1 per CL, and finally at 15th level the damage increases to 4d8 plus 1 per CL. This ability can be used a number of times equal to 3 + the Reanimator's Charisma modifier.
Focused Study: At 2nd level and every odd level afterward the Reanimator can choose a single Necromancy spell of the highest level he can cast or lower from the Cleric or Sorcerer/Wizard spell list and add it to his list of known spells.