We were greeted by the Dancing Lady upon entering her room at the top of the central tower. After a couple sentences of conversation, and none of us noticing anything strange about the female elf standing before us, she started to dance...
lvl 5 cavalier (made save)
lvl 5 oracle (failed save)
lvl 5 rogue (failed save)
lvl 5 ninja (failed save)
The cavalier noticed something was amiss (don't ask me what LOL) when the lady tried to dance with the oracle so he stepped in and was attacked by the lady.
the lady continued to dance and the 3 party members stayed dazed.
the lady continued to attack the cavalier with her bit and claws and almost killed him until suggesting (spell-like ability) he go pick some flowers.. having failed his will save he headed downstairs to do.
as it was played the remaining party members were unable to break their trance
Basically the players got frustrated because it seemed like a save or die situation. I would like some opinions on how the Lady's abilities were played out. I was one of the players and I'm trying to be objective but... I'll be watching the post to answer any questions if they are needed to clarify the situation. Ultimately this was considered a TPK by the players and the dm.
From what I can see in the statblock, captivated characters are able to defend themselves, and if she tried to attack/grapple/whateverthreateningaction they should be able to react accordingly, even if they can't initiate an attack before she does so.
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If you read the obits, this encounter is one of those that can easily result in player deaths or even TPKs. The entire encounter is fairly strong and her power is a difficult save. Some more info about what happened leading up to meeting her might help us give you advice. For instance where were the other two fey?
For instance where were the other two fey?
The assasin vine and the grey guy were eating our cleric. We had uncharacteristically dealt fairly well with Rigg (Is that the right name for the quickling?). When we encountered The Lady she was alone.
An additional question I have is that should she have been able to attack the cavalier and keep the others dazed at the same time.
An additional question I have is that should she have been able to attack the cavalier and keep the others dazed at the same time.
If they were all in range of her effect, yes.
I don't think she can grapple while dancing, though. Check the RRR GM reference thread.
If they were all in range of her effect, yes.
=( Sad face. This is why we felt the encounter was a TPK. If she could keep them dazed while picking off the others individually we could not defeat her. Even though the cavalier made his save she probably would have killed him if he hadn't gone to pick flowers.
=( Sad face. This is why we felt the encounter was a TPK. If she could keep them dazed while picking off the others individually we could not defeat her. Even though the cavalier made his save she probably would have killed him if he hadn't gone to pick flowers.If they were all in range of her effect, yes.
It seems to me that your GM didn't play her as described in the adventure (which is his/her right of course), if all she did was attack normally and not try to grapple you, which would have broken the daze effect.
Edit: And as noted below, she's not stupid either. :)
Strictly speaking she can not dance and grapple at the same time. Essentially the second she grabs some poor chump to feed on the spell breaks and the PCs can try to rescue their grabbed comrade.
It's in her best interests to get most of the party to leave before she starts feeding.
Technically, there is nothing that prevents her from grappling while dancing. It is a free action for her to maintain, IIRC, and you can perform free actions while grappled, just like Bardic music. Think of it like she is grinding with you.
Personally, I think they need to give people more than 1 save on the ability. When I ran it, only 1 person failed the save, and he felt disappointed until the druid finally realized she had obscurring mist.
It was clarified in the RRR GM thread that she cannot dance and grapple at the same time. She can, however, attack with claws and such while continuing her dance.
Basically, she tried to captivate everyone with her dance, then "convince" using magic for others to defend her. Once she has a bodyguard, she can grapple a captivated foe to feed. Strictly speaking, this is probably not her best strategy since she could just tear them all limb from limb while captivated, but it does make a more interesting (and still deadly) encounter.
Thanks for the responses Caineach and Tem. The players felt like there should have been some save to end the effect. We've even gone so far as to look up the original source of the creature to see if there was some shred of hope there, but alas no. Personally I'm able to handle the situation as "that's the way the cookie crumbles."
It's a tough encounter, especially if the Dancing Lady's "allies" are there. She can pretty much hold you in place while they kill you. I think the Dancing Lady's ability is a bit too much for characters of that level.
We use the hero point system. I allowed my players to use Hero Points to get another save. That's how they survived. They were really looking like they were going to die since everyone missed their save. If I hadn't allowed hero points, it would have been a TPK since both of her allies had retreated to her location.
If you're not using hero points, it is probably bad news for your party.
Dancing Lady was a chump in my game. Rigg beat the hell out of my PCs; they ran right across the insanity mist~ downstairs before the fight, so when it released a round later, nobody was in its range of effect.
Because of the way I described the location to one of my players, who had taken a Fey bloodline feat, they decided to put Protection From Evil on him before the fight. When she began to dance, he (the most vulnerable) was immune, as was a female character, and only one character failed the save -- who was taken care of in the next action.
They beat her back to a wall, and she tried to Suggest the most obvious target, who couldn't be affected by it. Exeunt squatters.
Dancing Lady was a chump in my game. Rigg beat the hell out of my PCs; they ran right across the insanity mist~ downstairs before the fight, so when it released a round later, nobody was in its range of effect.
Because of the way I described the location to one of my players, who had taken a Fey bloodline feat, they decided to put Protection From Evil on him before the fight. When she began to dance, he (the most vulnerable) was immune, as was a female character, and only one character failed the save -- who was taken care of in the next action.
They beat her back to a wall, and she tried to Suggest the most obvious target, who couldn't be affected by it. Exeunt squatters.
We don't play Protection from Evil as effective against effects that captivate. Only against those that exercise mental control as in dominate or charm the person. So the Protection from Evil would have only helped with saves in our group.
I think I'm mis-remembering that part.
I had my entire party fail the save and were on their way to a TPK. I left it as a cliff hanger and contacted a friend who used to DM and he gave me some sound advice.
He said, "Fey are weird and have motives that are very different from what we may expect, so make up something weird that they want and will exchange the party for."
I felt that they should definitely have some penalty for the situation so it didn't feel like divine intervention and cheapen things.
The party had saved the life of Tiressia and her lover Falchos and it had become common knowledge that she now served the PC's as a lookout.
The Dancing Lady has been outcast from the first world and has been seeking a way home and needs to sacrifice a good fey to complete the ritual to send them home. She trades the PC's lives for the life of Tiressia. Tiressia volunteers herself to be sacrificed for two reasons. To repay the life debt and to give the evil fey a way home so they would no longer prey upon the innocent people of the Narlmarches.
This left them without their +2 stability and feeling crappy for her death, but alive and moving forward. Since then, they have been much more careful about preparing before entering places.
So, in my opinion it turned out pretty well.
This sounds like an awesome villian to bring back in book 6.
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The Dancing Lady has been outcast from the first world and has been seeking a way home and needs to sacrifice a good fey to complete the ritual to send them home. She trades the PC's lives for the life of Tiressia. Tiressia volunteers herself to be sacrificed for two reasons. To repay the life debt and to give the evil fey a way home so they would no longer prey upon the innocent people of the Narlmarches.
This left them without their +2 stability and feeling crappy for her death, but alive and moving forward. Since then, they have been much more careful about preparing before entering places.
So, in my opinion it turned out pretty well.
Nice one. I'll keep that in my back pocket just in case.
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I had my entire party fail the save and were on their way to a TPK. I left it as a cliff hanger and contacted a friend who used to DM and he gave me some sound advice.
He said, "Fey are weird and have motives that are very different from what we may expect, so make up something weird that they want and will exchange the party for."
I felt that they should definitely have some penalty for the situation so it didn't feel like divine intervention and cheapen things.
The party had saved the life of Tiressia and her lover Falchos and it had become common knowledge that she now served the PC's as a lookout.
The Dancing Lady has been outcast from the first world and has been seeking a way home and needs to sacrifice a good fey to complete the ritual to send them home. She trades the PC's lives for the life of Tiressia. Tiressia volunteers herself to be sacrificed for two reasons. To repay the life debt and to give the evil fey a way home so they would no longer prey upon the innocent people of the Narlmarches.
This left them without their +2 stability and feeling crappy for her death, but alive and moving forward. Since then, they have been much more careful about preparing before entering places.
So, in my opinion it turned out pretty well.
Wow! Good story!
The entire party failed their rolls. After a couple of rounds, and the fact that there is no recurring save, they started to get REALLY frustrated with the encounter, as written. I'd decided that the captivation lasted for 1d4+2 rounds after she stopped dancing and started grappling (my group is made up of power players). However, once she stopped dancing and started grappling, I started giving them saves to break free. I rolled horribly (loss of 4 STR and CON over 3 rounds).
They started breaking free. One character kept failing, so I gave them a +2 circumstance bonus due to watching her friend get his blood sucked dry. Once they broke free, it was a short fight.
Her dying curse made the fight with the quickling interesting...a gimped ranger with 12 STR simply couldn't hit. I could have been cruel and likely killed the guy who was under 2 Hero points, but, if I remember right, the Magus landed a crit and one hit him.
As an aside, at least in our campaign, the Magus is pretty OP...far outdamaging both the Ranger (who does a minimum of 11 or 12 damage a hit) and the Fused Synthesist.
The entire party failed their rolls.Huh, I've been thinking about how to make it "fair" for my party to not keel over all dead... but then I started thinking about it. While bad rolls may play a part, I think my group should be fine. We've got 2 women and three guys. The two women(well, at least one of them) will get the bonus to their saves. Two of the men are a gay couple.
So, I'm hoping that with four of the five of the group not attracted to her might help keep the party alive.
You'll want to double-check the book; if I recall, there is no bonus to the save--only that people who could be attracted to her have a penalty and the rest of the group saves as normal.
You'll want to double-check the book; if I recall, there is no bonus to the save--only that people who could be attracted to her have a penalty and the rest of the group saves as normal.So, I'm hoping that with four of the five of the group not attracted to her might help keep the party alive.
If I recall, you are correct. There's no bonus. People attracted to females get a -2 to their save attempt.
One of my PCs is a female cleric and failed the worst out of them all.
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I gave the Baron of my RL kingmaker game a +1 'fidelity bonus' to the save as he was married just before he set out to the keep.
He was the only one who passed, only because of the +1 fidelity bonus.
My players and I thought it turned out awesome. He was able to kill her solo through a series of lucky rolls.
Yeesh. My party is doomed. :) Wisdom has been the dump stat for everyone but the cleric.
Sounds like they dug their own grave :P
My players figured out a lot of the monsters were very good at grappling, and that it sucked.. So two of them gave up their next 00B3R-dmg feat for improved grapple.. And are LOVING it ^^
(If they hadn't, probably more would have died)