First time Pathfinder GM here. I've run into a bit of a speed bump. I'm trying to create a Great White Shark by applying the Advanced and Giant Creature templates to the standard shark. What's throwing me off is this...
For the Giant Creature template, it says to advance the size category by one step: in this case, from Large to Huge. Then, later, it says increase stats +4 size bonus to Str and Con, –2 Dex. But, there is a table on size changes that says this: Large to Huge; +8 str –2 dex +4 con +3 nat. armor.
So, my question is this: Are both stat adjustments applied? Or are the size increase and stat increase separated purposefully, implying that the "increase size category" section only implies adjustment for the purposes of reach, CMBs, etc.?
My gut reaction is that they probably shouldn't be combined, but that way is a bit confusing in the text of it...
It's a template. Use exactly what it shows. However, for a little more effort, you can simply give the creature more HD and a size increase per the normal sizing rules.
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I would go with the one in the table: +8 STR, +4 CON, -2 DEX, +3 Natural Armor. My guess is that when writing the template, they wrote in the build instructions for advancing small to medium, and then didn't bother to say so. There's no reason to make a table like that if it were always going to be +4 STR +4 CON.
Once you've applied the Giant Template, add the advanced template of +4 to all scores and +2 natural armor.
Your shark's stats should look like:
Str 29, Dex 14, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 16, Cha 6
Also, ouch.
Bite +12 2d6+13
I would go with the one in the table: +8 STR, +4 CON, -2 DEX, +3 Natural Armor. My guess is that when writing the template, they wrote in the build instructions for advancing small to medium, and then didn't bother to say so. There's no reason to make a table like that if it were always going to be +4 STR +4 CON.
Once you've applied the Giant Template, add the advanced template of +4 to all scores and +2 natural armor.
Your shark's stats should look like:
Str 29, Dex 14, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 16, Cha 6
Also, ouch.
Bite +12 2d6+13
You should see my plan for a giant snake Eidolon.
More related: Adhere to the template, not any other table about size increases.
Creative Director
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There are two ways to make a giant version of a creature, and both should generally not be applied at the same time.
Method 1: Use the giant creature simple template. This is GREAT when you're running a game and you suddenly realize you need a larger version of a creature—say, if the PCs are on a boat and they fall into the water and you weren't prepared for that and didn't have great white sharks ready for them. In this case, just follow the rules in page 247 of the bestiary and put the advanced and giant simple templates on the standard shark and let it rip.
Method 2: If you're preparing for a game beforehand, it's better to actually just build the stats by hand. In this case, apply the advanced template to the shark and then just manually advance it to the new size category—don't use the giant template at all in this case.
So... if you use the Giant template, that's all you need to do—it's not as accurate, really, as manually increasing the creature's size category, but it's a lot faster. If, on the other hand, you have the time before hand and just manually advance the creature's size using the rules on page 296 of the Bestiary, you don't need to use the giant creature template at all.
I'm afraid I still get a case of the giggles whenever I think about a Giant Giant Toad. Or a Giant Advanced Giant Toad. Or what have you.
There are two ways to make a giant version of a creature, and both should generally not be applied at the same time.
Method 1: Use the giant creature simple template. This is GREAT when you're running a game and you suddenly realize you need a larger version of a creature—say, if the PCs are on a boat and they fall into the water and you weren't prepared for that and didn't have great white sharks ready for them. In this case, just follow the rules in page 247 of the bestiary and put the advanced and giant simple templates on the standard shark and let it rip.
Method 2: If you're preparing for a game beforehand, it's better to actually just build the stats by hand. In this case, apply the advanced template to the shark and then just manually advance it to the new size category—don't use the giant template at all in this case.
So... if you use the Giant template, that's all you need to do—it's not as accurate, really, as manually increasing the creature's size category, but it's a lot faster. If, on the other hand, you have the time before hand and just manually advance the creature's size using the rules on page 296 of the Bestiary, you don't need to use the giant creature template at all.
I see now, that makes more sense.
Thanks for the input, James!