Does Shadowdancer's Jaunt ability count as Dimension Door for Dimensional Agility feat chain?
the feat requires the Dimension Door spell or abundant step class ability. A number of class abilities say the ability operates as Dimension Door. Is that enough to qualify for the feat in PFS ?
I would assume so. The ability is in line with the requirements for that feat.
However, that question belongs to the pathfinder rpg rules board as it is a general question and not one that is specific to PFS.
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Does Shadowdancer's Jaunt ability count as Dimension Door for Dimensional Agility feat chain?
the feat requires the Dimension Door spell or abundant step class ability. A number of class abilities say the ability operates as Dimension Door. Is that enough to qualify for the feat in PFS ?
Shadow Jump (as the shadowdancer ability is called) is not Dimension Door or abundant step. It may grant an ability that functions 'like dimension door', but 'like' does not equal 'is'. Shadow Jump functions differently from dimension door, with different restrictions and limitations.
The feat requirements are extremely specific; unless you have the ability to cast the *specific spell* dimension door (either as a spell or a spell-like ability) or the use of the abundant step monk ability, you do not qualify for these feats. End of.
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From a Society perspective: no. If a feat or ability calls out other specific abilities, it means only those abilities absent language like "or similar..." There is no such language here, so shadow jump won't cut it. There's less leeway for a society GM than for home GMs in feat interpretation like this.
For a home game, there are concerns allowing this. Shadow jump is a different animal than either of these abilities despite its similarities, and it has several different conditions, but, that being said, it's not unreasonable to house rule it in.
I asked the same question. It should have been but isn't, just like so many of the new weapons in UC should be weapon finesse but not one is.
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I think the question got moved to the general rules questions board. though I had asked b/c i was going to make a character for PFS with an eye on taking the feats.
In home game i know i can house rule it to work.
For the general RPG though? consensus seems to be no, even though that's how exceptions are born. they write a feat for a spell or ability, some other ability gives access to the spell or an ability that functions like the spell, and in the end gets to use the feat meant for the spell.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/prestigeClasses/shadowdancer.html#shadow dancer
Shadow Jump (Su): At 4th level, a shadowdancer gains the ability to travel between shadows as if by means of a dimension door spell. The limitation is that the magical transport must begin and end in an area with at least some dim light. A shadowdancer can jump up to a total of 40 feet each day in this way; this may be a single jump of 40 feet or four jumps of 10 feet each. Every two levels higher than 4th, the distance a shadowdancer can jump each day doubles (80 feet at 6th, 160 feet at 8th, and 320 feet at 10th). This amount can be split among many jumps, but each one, no matter how small, counts as a 10-foot increment.
for all intents and purposes, they cast dimension door as a supernatural ability. they can't take any action once they reach their destination. but there's additional limitations that don't exist in the dimension door spell itself.
Ergo a feat like Dimensional Agility would suit both a wizard who wants to cast dimension door and then take a move action, and a shadowdancer who uses Shadow Jump.
i find it curious that all of the dimension feats are limited by the creature's speed, not by the range of the dimension door spell.
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I see your points, and as I said the logic is there. It'd be a fine house rule for a GM, but any time an ability lists specific things that work, that list is considered exhaustive for society play unless Mark or whoever takes Hyrum's place says otherwise.
It's to try and avoid table variation.
Further, Abundant Step also directly references Dimension Door, and yet was included. As both of these abilities were in existence before the feat in question, and the feat mentions only one, the feat only works with that which it mentioned.
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but what if abundant step is included as an example of other abilities that use dimension door ? the wording on the ability is very close.
Abundant Step (Su): At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 2 points from his ki pool. His caster level for this effect is equal to his monk level. He cannot take other creatures with him when he uses this ability.
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but what if abundant step is included as an example of other abilities that use dimension door ? the wording on the ability is very close.
Abundant Step (Su): At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 2 points from his ki pool. His caster level for this effect is equal to his monk level. He cannot take other creatures with him when he uses this ability.
That's the problem. Any assumption like that goes beyond the bounds of an organized play GM. If you're running org play games, you have to be conservative about such things. Further, the text of the feat in no way indicates that similar abilities were contemplated as qualifying.
It could have said "dimension door or similar abilities," or even "the ability to use dimension door," but what it says instead is "Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door."
Casting dimension door is a very different thing that a supernatural ability that performs a similar effect. Casting means spellcasting and spellcasting only. There just isn't any way that this is society legal.
well, since other people felt the need to flag this to be moved to regular rules questions, while i was asking for society, i'll just deal with it in home games and avoid it in PFS play.
Its great to see paizo publishing hundreds of feats, most of which they have to ignore for society play.
As far as I know, it's perfectly legal for society play - you just have to meet the stated requirements. The fact that those stated requirements ought to be more permissive doesn't make it illegal or not worth taking if you do meet them.
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its not that they're illegal, but the restrictions on the qualifications means that only certain builds can take the feats:
monk at 12th gets abundant step. unless he somehow can take dimensional agility as a bonus feat at that point, monks can't take the dimensional feats in PFS period.
cleric w/ travel domain at 7th level, summoner at 7th level, wizard at 7th level. can select dimensional agility. to then qualify for dimensional assault you have a +6 bab. which knocks out pure wizards.
if you're a Travel cleric, summoner, or wizard 7/full bab class 3, you can take dimensional assault with your next feat.
only a Travel cleric or Summoner can get to dimensional dervish at 11th level. the other dimensional feats are off limits because you can't start the chain before 7th, and can't take them as bonus feats from any other class.
Classes that it thematically would fit with, like shadowdancer, can't take it because of the strict requirement of being able to cast dimension door.