I was hoping to get some feedback on this from folks since a recent thread about sword canes made me think about actual canes as weapons. I recently had a cerebral hemorrhage (last year) & out of boredom one day in the hospital looking online for cool looking canes I found out they are rather frightening weapons with some training see here here and here for some quick example of things you probably never would have imagined in conjunction with canes! I tried to get a decent selection of videos showing trip/disarm and general lethal hurt
Fighting canes have some special adaptations sometimes made to them
- The rubber cap at the bottom can sometimes be hiding the tip's angled point with the rubber tip popping off when it's flipped up like demonstrated in the third video using the resistance from the ground to give the upward flick even more power before the angled tip is used to impale the target;).
-The handgrip can be pointed like in the first video or the J shape you often see.. that J shape is perfect for tearing out the throat of an attacker(look on youtube and you can find examples of how to as well)
- sometimes there are grooves along the stick part of the cane, the grooves can shred flesh if raked along it.
Canes should probably be an EWP with rogue types getting it free IMO, they should probably be finessable & give a +2 to disarm/trip/grapple(maybe) allowing dex instead of str to CMB/CMD involving the use of the cane
Given the spiffyness they already get, they probably shouldn't be amazing dps monster weapons, maybe something like:
2d4 bldg/pierce 18-20/x3 making them into a good option for dex/finesse based types and opening up trip/disarm/grapple for them without having to take agile maneuvers to do so.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Just call it a light club. Simple weapon. Problem solved.
Just call it a light club. Simple weapon. Problem solved.
Because paizo already added a sword cane, but did so in a way that makes it complete fail. this was an attempt at fixing the fail. :)
|
I think you're making that unreasonable good.
Cane
1d4 bludgeoning (add a piercing option if its sharpened.)
19-20/x2
Finessable
Simple Weapon
Monk weapon
Rogue Weapon
Wizard Weapon
Are some of those guys able to do fantastic things with a cane? Absolutely. That's not because the cane is an exceptionally good weapon. It's effectively a rapier in terms of size and weight. It's much less lethal. A rapier you dont have to hit the eyes and groin or keep beating on people for it to be lethal.
The advantage of the cane is you can bring it anywhere, and if you're over 40 years old, nobody will bat an eye at you.
I think you're making that unreasonable good.
Cane
1d4 bludgeoning (add a piercing option if its sharpened.)
19-20/x2
Finessable
Simple Weapon
Monk weapon
Rogue Weapon
Wizard WeaponAre some of those guys able to do fantastic things with a cane? Absolutely. That's not because the cane is an exceptionally good weapon. It's effectively a rapier in terms of size and weight. It's much less lethal. A rapier you dont have to hit the eyes and groin or keep beating on people for it to be lethal.
The advantage of the cane is you can bring it anywhere, and if you're over 40 years old, nobody will bat an eye at you.
I'm 32 with a cane and nobody bats an eye at me, they even go out of their way to hold doors & such. You don't need to hit the groin or keep beating people though. It makes an excellent club & any place soft (belly, eyes, etc) can be fatal. From the third video, when he gives the example of hitting the guy in the jaw, it's capable of breaking the neck or dislocating the jaw
Here are a couple more good videos...grapples more grapple
hmm....not a great video there(too fast)... but it has a few things displayed I wanted to point out. The cane is intentionally less J shaped as it allows it to be used as ahook or to tear into an opponent... early on when he says "thrust... hook" while swinging the cane around, look at what level the cane is at. The thrust is belly level & could be fatal, the hook is throat level and with a cane like that would tear it right out
trip look at how freakishly simple that trip is
more grapples and tripstwo things about this video, it shows how effortless it is one, but two.. at about 1:47 notice what happens when he goes from wacking one guy and quickly stops the next guy to avoid hitting him in the stomach with the tip. If I were to reduce something with the cane, I'd think lowering the damage would probably be a better fit. I didn't think 2d4 18-20/x2 wastoo far off the chart though
By what standard? This is really not a weapon that should equal a short sword, let along anything better. The only advantage a sword cane should have is that you can take it inside in a place where you'd normally have to surrender all weapons.Just call it a light club. Simple weapon. Problem solved.Because paizo already added a sword cane, but did so in a way that makes it complete fail. this was an attempt at fixing the fail. :)
Sword canes were for people that didn't learn to use a cane, they have a wow factor, but they are actually less dangerous than an actual cane because you can't hold the blade to use the hook in combat & the plain cane can still shred flesh with grooves along it examples from canemasters
hmm can't go back & fix it now I guess... I didn't think that it was too much as an exotic weapon, reducing the damage would probably be a better fit if it was though. As to letting dex apply to CMD, it should be part of finesse already instead of needing to take agile maneuvers, having an exotic weapon let you do so without that particular feat is hardly overpowered
Well you could the route of of a Katana, double walking stick, Combat Sharpened Scabard, or a Hanbo
Combat scabbard, sharpened 10gp 1d4 1d6 18–20/×2 — 1 lb. S
Combat Scabbard, Sharpened:
This combat scabbard has a sharp blade on the outer edge, allowing you to use it as a weapon.
Katana, double walking stick 50 gp 1d4/1d4 1d6/1d6 ×3 — 6 lbs. B double
Katana, Double Walking Stick: This single case conceals a pair of matched fighting swords perfectly balanced to be wielded as a pair. Despite their name, the blades more closely resemble the shorter wakizashi. When the blades are concealed in their case, this weapon can be used as a quarterstaff.
Hanbo 1 gp 1d4 1d6 ×2 — 2 lbs. B monk, trip
Hanbo: The hanbo is a staff less than a yard long, often carved to look like a walking stick.
|
Sword canes were for people that didn't learn to use a cane, they have a wow factor, but they are actually less dangerous than an actual cane because you can't hold the blade to use the hook in combat & the plain cane can still shred flesh with grooves along it examples from canemastersBy what standard? This is really not a weapon that should equal a short sword, let along anything better. The only advantage a sword cane should have is that you can take it inside in a place where you'd normally have to surrender all weapons.Just call it a light club. Simple weapon. Problem solved.Because paizo already added a sword cane, but did so in a way that makes it complete fail. this was an attempt at fixing the fail. :)
We used to use Canes as offhand weapons in fencing and boy do they help with binding blades and disarming...
Cane fighting techniques became much more popular when wearing swords in public started becoming frowned upon, or simply illegal.
I believe Savate in particular has a long history of using the walking stick as a weapon.
I've always used canes as clubs in my games; almost every wizard I've ever made used one. Much more stylish and easy to maneuver [in courtly environments] than a bulky staff.
Using it untrained as a club is fine & runs under "the pointy end goes in the other guy" duh style of weapon use ;). having an EWP for more advanced & functional use seems more "stylish" though :)
Arguing the lethality of a weapon in terms of weapon statistics is going to get you no where.
Any weapon can be used to kill. A dagger is just as deadly as a longsword, the only difference is range.
In my experience, I have always considered canes to be light maces. Many of them, especially fancy ones, have metal heads, so it works. You could do a club as well. If it's hooked like a modern cane, I could also see giving it the trip quality.
I would suggest looking into the martial art of Hapkido. A hooked cane is a standard weapon for them.
I think you're making that unreasonable good.
Cane
1d4 bludgeoning (add a piercing option if its sharpened.)
19-20/x2
Finessable
Simple Weapon
Monk weapon
Rogue Weapon
Wizard WeaponAre some of those guys able to do fantastic things with a cane? Absolutely. That's not because the cane is an exceptionally good weapon. It's effectively a rapier in terms of size and weight. It's much less lethal. A rapier you dont have to hit the eyes and groin or keep beating on people for it to be lethal.
The advantage of the cane is you can bring it anywhere, and if you're over 40 years old, nobody will bat an eye at you.
I'm 32 with a cane and nobody bats an eye at me, they even go out of their way to hold doors & such. You don't need to hit the groin or keep beating people though. It makes an excellent club & any place soft (belly, eyes, etc) can be fatal. From the third video, when he gives the example of hitting the guy in the jaw, it's capable of breaking the neck or dislocating the jaw
Here are a couple more good videos...
grapples more grapplehmm....not a great video there(too fast)... but it has a few things displayed I wanted to point out. The cane is intentionally less J shaped as it allows it to be used as ahook or to tear into an opponent... early on when he says "thrust... hook" while swinging the cane around, look at what level the cane is at. The thrust is belly level & could be fatal, the hook is throat level and with a cane like that would tear it right out
trip look at how freakishly simple that trip is...
I am just picturing all of these with a temple sword :D
If you wanted to make a "hooked cane" as a more specific weapon for monks, it could be:
S 1d3/M 1d4, x2 crit, bludgeoning, trip, monk
Arguing the lethality of a weapon in terms of weapon statistics is going to get you no where.
Any weapon can be used to kill. A dagger is just as deadly as a longsword, the only difference is range.
Yep, Canes are clubs. No sense reinventing the wheel here. You can kill someone just as easily with a cane, a club, a sword cane... a rock... a pool cue... a table leg... pushing them down near a table..
HP, damage, crit... are very abstract and futile when trying to debate 'real' weapons.
|
|
If you wanted to make a "hooked cane" as a more specific weapon for monks, it could be:
S 1d3/M 1d4, x2 crit, bludgeoning, trip, monk
Adventurer's Armory already beat you to this. It's called a Hanbo and it's one step better than that, same special abilities. An old Sensei or Maneuver Master could kick some serious butt with this.
Adventurer's Armory already beat you to this. It's called a Hanbo and it's one step better than that, same special abilities. An old Sensei or Maneuver Master could kick some serious butt with this.If you wanted to make a "hooked cane" as a more specific weapon for monks, it could be:
S 1d3/M 1d4, x2 crit, bludgeoning, trip, monk
Curses!