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"Flurry of Maneuvers (Ex): At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry. At 8th level, a maneuver master may attempt a second additional combat maneuver, with an additional –3 penalty on combat maneuver checks. At 15th level, a maneuver master may attempt a third additional combat maneuver, with an additional –7 penalty on combat maneuver checks. This ability replaces f lurry of blows."
I'm not quite sure about the wording about the penalties.
At first, you only get one extra manoeuvre, and all combat manoeuvres suffer a -2 penalty in that round.
So far so gut
But then you go to level 8 and get 2 extra manoeuvres, and it says "with an additional -3 penalties on manoeuvre checks." Same with level 15, 3 extra manoevures and an additional -7 penalty.
Does this mean all manoeuvres get this additional penalty, or just the second (and third) ones? Since that would be quite brutal. Plus, the wording suggests that the penalties are added up, so on level 15 you have a total -15 on all manoeuvres.
What manoeuvres are supposed to have which penalty?
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"Flurry of Maneuvers (Ex): At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry. At 8th level, a maneuver master may attempt a second additional combat maneuver, with an additional –3 penalty on combat maneuver checks. At 15th level, a maneuver master may attempt a third additional combat maneuver, with an additional –7 penalty on combat maneuver checks. This ability replaces f lurry of blows."
I'm not quite sure about the wording about the penalties.
At first, you only get one extra manoeuvre, and all combat manoeuvres suffer a -2 penalty in that round.
So far so gut
But then you go to level 8 and get 2 extra manoeuvres, and it says "with an additional -3 penalties on manoeuvre checks." Same with level 15, 3 extra manoevures and an additional -7 penalty.
Does this mean all manoeuvres get this additional penalty, or just the second (and third) ones? Since that would be quite brutal. Plus, the wording suggests that the penalties are added up, so on level 15 you have a total -15 on all manoeuvres.
What manoeuvres are supposed to have which penalty?
Let's make this simple and say you are at 15th level. I believe, from the way it is worded, that the first C.M. would take a -2. Then the second would make all of your C.M. have a -5. Then they would all take a -12 if you try all three C.M.'s.
Hope that helps! Probably wasn't what you wanted to hear though.
Let's make this simple and say you are at 15th level. I believe, from the way it is worded, that the first C.M. would take a -2. Then the second would make all of your C.M. have a -5. Then they would all take a -12 if you try all three C.M.'s.
The question is: Will all manoeuvres in that round - the ones you do with your normal attacks (you can trip as an attack, for example) and all three extras - get the -12?
Because that sounds harsh to the point of being useless.
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Being that Flurry-related stuff generally goes off the logic of the TWF rules, I'd say that the second 'extra' maneuver is similar to Improved Two Weapon Fighting and the third is similar to Greater Two Weapon Fighting - that is to say, the additional penalties only apply to those specific attacks / maneuvers.
So...
level 1: Flurry of Maneuvers = one extra maneuver, all take -2
Level 8: 'Improved' Flurry of Maneuvers = one extra, all take -2, plus one more on top of that but this last one is at -5.
Level 15: 'Greater' Flurry of Maneuvers = one extra, all take -2, plus one more on top of that but this one is at -5, then one more again but this last one is at -9.
So (including Monk levels as BAB equivilent)...
Level 1 = -1/-1
Level 8 = +6/+6/+1
Level 15 = +13/+13/+10/+6
Note that whilst all combat maneuver checks take the -2 while using the Flurry of Maneuvers, normal combat rolls don't. So it appears that you can use this to take all your usual attacks, at whatever your usual attack bonus would be for them, then an extra one, two, or three maneuvers on top of that (with Flurry penalties).
P.S. Note also that this interpretation is based on the rules text quoted above (I've not got the UC book yet myself).
Being that Flurry-related stuff generally goes off the logic of the TWF rules, I'd say that the second 'extra' maneuver is similar to Improved Two Weapon Fighting and the third is similar to Greater Two Weapon Fighting - that is to say, the additional penalties only apply to those specific attacks / maneuvers.
That's how I'd do it, too. However, the rules say that combat manoeuvres get the extra penalty, not just this one. That's what got me thinking.
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Well, your quoted text states...
... At 8th level, a maneuver master may attempt a second additional combat maneuver, with an additional –3 penalty on combat maneuver checks...
To me that's saying that particular maneuver (i.e. that one 'attack') gets the penalties on any and all checks which may need to be made as part of it - the plural is there for those corner cases when you need to make more than one maneuver check per maneuver (such as when you Bull Rush one guy into another guy). It doesn't imply, to me, that other, seperate, maneuvers get this additional penalty as well, or the wording would more closely match the...
... though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry...
... from earlier on in the text.