I don't mean to spam, but the other thread appears to be malfunctioning.
To the point:
I am considering an invulnerable rager barbarian with the stalwart feat so,simple question:
Can a barbarian use the combat expertise feat during rage?
3.5 Rage restrictions
He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats. A fit of rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the character’s (newly improved) Constitution modifier. A barbarian may prematurely end his rage.
Pathfinder rage restrictions
While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
So basically:
1)any ability that requires patience or concentration = you can use combat expertise now
or
2)any ability that requires patience or concentration = generic way of saying that things like combat expertise and metamagic feats won't work?
Go ahead and use it. They specifically removed that exact bit as you note.
The only link Combat Expertise has to the ´unallowed stuff´ is that it has a Pre-Req of INT 13, but so does Improved Trip (in effect).
Combat Expertise is basically an advanced version of Fighting Defensively, which doesn´t have any limitations on it.
I also noticed your other thread, but could never see the 1st post. I don´t know what´s up with that.
A raging Barbarian could use the total defense or fight defensively actions, thus Combat Expertise should be fine.
Some of the rage powers specifically add AC and are "defensive" so I'm not seeing where the conflict (in Pathfinder rules terms) is arising.
A raging Barbarian could use the total defense or fight defensively ctions, thus Combat Expertise should be fine.
Some of the rage powers specifically add AC and are "defensive" so I'm not seeing where the conflict (in Pathfinder rules terms) is arising.
I think I could buy the argument that the "patience or concentration" also refers to combat expertise since it is a more careful approach to combat (as opposed by the more aggressive attitude that the flavor of the class feature suggests).
At the same time I've also noticed those same powers you mentioned and the stalwart chain of feats, so that made me a little confused in regards to RAI.
Go ahead and use it. They specifically removed that exact bit as you note.
The only link Combat Expertise has to the ´unallowed stuff´ is that it has a Pre-Req of INT 13, but so does Improved Trip (in effect).
Combat Expertise is basically an advanced version of Fighting Defensively, which doesn´t have any limitations on it.I also noticed your other thread, but could never see the 1st post. I don´t know what´s up with that.
I guess that makes sense, but the int 13 thing still bothers me a little, TBH.
Unless you´re going to bar every option which gives a penalty to attacks (say, Power Attack) on the basis that voluntary attack penalties prolong combat and thus count as requiring patience, I don´t see how Combat Expertise would qualify to be banned.
You are otherwise taking the same actions as you normally would, it is not disassembling and reassembling a ballista in mid-combat, you are completing the same actions you could normally in a 6 second round of combat. Concentration is a game term associated with spell casting. Patience is not a game term, but since Combat Expertise / Fighting Defensively has no long term commitment to a certain action (it just penalizes your attacks for 1 round, just like Power Attack), I don´t see how Patience is invoked here.
And as an aside how often did they have Barbarians trying to use item creation feats in rage? Did that really come up enough they had to ban it?
And as an aside how often did they have Barbarians trying to use item creation feats in rage? Did that really come up enough they had to ban it?
Lol, I doubt it.
It was those damn Rage Mages (funniest Prc in 3.5 for me.)
I might be wrong but I don't think they could craft magic items while in combat and raging!
Unless you´re going to bar every option which gives a penalty to attacks (say, Power Attack) on the basis that voluntary attack penalties prolong combat and thus count as requiring patience, I don´t see how Combat Expertise would qualify to be banned.
Power attack, flavor-wise seems more in tune with rage than combat expertise IMO.
You are otherwise taking the same actions as you normally would, it is not disassembling and reassembling a ballista in mid-combat, you are completing the same actions you could normally in a 6 second round of combat. Concentration is a game term associated with spell casting. Patience is not a game term, but since Combat Expertise / Fighting Defensively has no long term commitment to a certain action (it just penalizes your attacks for 1 round, just like Power Attack), I don´t see how Patience is invoked here.
Yeah I'm leaning towards agreeing with you.